Facial recognition, rebooting your computer, your online twin, the GDPR, and FIDO – Debbie Reynolds the Data Diva shares common-sense guidance as well as updates about regulations, algorithmic bias, controlling your data, and many more facets of virtual privacy. Apps copying your clipboard, passwordless access to digital vaults, and how events in World War II led to legislation and robust conversation about privacy as a human right are just a few of the issues that Debbie highlights for listeners. A highly informative episode!
Accomplishments and learning to cook (3:30)
Chicago, Illinois - Gary, Indiana - parents valued education (4:50)
Mother’s reading of a book led to initial interest in data privacy issues (5:30)
Personal interest and “hobby” is now a career (6:00)
The Nazi’s practices gave rise to the undergirding principles of the GDPR - General Data Protection Regulation (7:00)
GPDR – EU’s first law that could impose large monetary fines on corporations (7:30)
Privacy as a fundamental right – EU and the US (7:55)
More details about GPDR’s connection to events of World War II (9:00)
High school or college coursework and connections with current events (10:10)
Drama courses and the significant impact on life and career (11:40)
“A right to be forgotten” (13:10)
The GDPR covers individuals when they are in the EU (13:25)
An individual’s GDPR rights travel with their data (13:50)
What should students learn about data privacy? (14:50)
At what age should students learn about data privacy? (16:10)
Any tips for parents? (16:20)
The need for educators to be aware of data privacy issues (17:55)
Avoid the co-mingling of your personal and professional work online (18:45)
Use multiple browsers, avoid clicking on links, keep software up to date, reboot your computer regularly (19:20)
Passwords, password managers (20:30)
FIDO – accessing information without passwords (22:05)
Differentiating awareness, information, and detail based on client knowledge and need (24:10)
Collect only the data you need (24:45)
A teacher who could demystify for their students (26:10)
Attention commands attention (26:25)
Debbie’s journey to become the Data Diva (27:25)
Speaking in the Big Mac room (28:20)
The law follows the technology (29:45)
Apple’s iOS14 – impact on advertising (30:30)
Apps reading your clipboard, including passwords (31:10)
Debbie’s mentors and colleagues - Dawid Jacobs, Pia Tesdorf, Emma Lindley (33:00)
Fake identities, digital twin, bias in algorithms (33:40)
How educational organizations be prepared for the next digital change (35:40)
Temperature data, archived information, schools and businesses, transparency (36:00)
Facial recognition, bias, false positives, mistaken identity (37:00)
Computers only do what the programmers tell the computer to do, industry standards (38:40)
People, not statistics – the ripple effects of error rates (39:40)
Favorite teacher -high school drama (40:10)
Communicate, convey information, and learn how to move through the world (40:30)
The Right to Privacy, by Ellen Alderman and Caroline Kennedy
David Reynolds (00:11):
What matters most in learning? The challenge, the thrill, the benefits, interacting with other people, or something else entirely? What is the connection between leading and learning? Does change drive learning, or does learning drive change? What's more important, teaching or learning? Is everyone a leader, a learner, a teacher? Want answers? Listen in as we address these intriguing issues through commentary and with guests who share their thinking and tell us their stories. Lead. Learn. Change.
Debbie Reynolds (00:54):
...working class. My father was a mechanical engineer. My mother was a nurse. She was very into education, though very interested in education and learning and having us explore different things. I never thought that this is sort of my hobby, it will become something that will become a business for me. Due to the atrocities of Nazi Germany, the EU put in their constitution basically that individuals who have a fundamental human right to access their data and that they should have ultimate control and an individual can under certain circumstances request that their data be erased almost as if it never existed.
Debbie Reynolds (01:43):
I was trying to figure out where people are. It's not easy to do and as an educator you know that this is true. As a teacher, you have to sort of prepare yourself and think about what you want to say. And what impact did you want to have? If I can't convey the information to someone who doesn't know anything about it, then I have to go back to the drawing board. Computers really only do what we tell them to do, so we want to be able to take the bias out of those situations. We're talking about people, we're not talking about statistics and this kind of get makes me a little upset when I think about it. So you're going to send 30 people to jail because this is inaccurate?
Debbie Reynolds (02:23):
Teaching is not just about information on a page. It's also about life skills or being able to learn how to communicate with one another, be able to convey a message. Those are all really important things that I learned from him. To me, it's like education plus, it's like learning a skill, learning information, but also learning how to move through the world.
David Reynolds (02:47):
Today. Our guest on Lead. Learn. Change. is Debbie Reynolds. Debbie, thanks for being here.
Debbie Reynolds (02:53):
Thank you for having me on the show.
David Reynolds (02:55):
Although I am married to Debbie, my wife is another Debbie Reynolds, one that I've known since 1979. During our recent introductions with today's Debbie, Debbie, and I discovered that we both have an uncle William and Debbie has an uncle David Reynolds. Debbie, our earlier conversations allowed me to see that you have a great sense of humor, a quick wit and a vast amount of knowledge. You also clearly have a lot of energy just looking at the content that you produce and the presentation schedule that you maintain.
Debbie Reynolds (03:24):
Thank you so much.
David Reynolds (03:25):
You're welcome. Your work world revolves around data, privacy rights, specifically the GDPR, the General Data Protection Regulation of the EU, the European union. You also advise Fortune 500 companies on data privacy issues. You are the CEO, founder and chief privacy officer of Debbie Reynolds Consulting. You frequently make group presentations. You have a YouTube channel and you've been interviewed on PBS. So what do you do for fun?
Debbie Reynolds (03:52):
For fun? When I used to live in DC, I taught myself how to cook before I moved there, I couldn't boil water basically. So I took that on as a hobby. And then I also do some gardening and shopping.
David Reynolds (04:08):
Excellent. So you say it, your specialty is "demystifying data privacy practices" so that data privacy can be turned into a business advantage. Well, this line caught my eye because I think that's what great teachers do every day. They help demystify. So we're going to come back to that later. And speaking of teaching and learning, you've also been an adjunct professor at Georgetown University. The list goes on, but I'll stop there and I'll make sure we put a link to your web page in our show notes.
Debbie Reynolds (04:36):
Fantastic. Fantastic. Thank you for having me on the show.
David Reynolds (04:39):
Sure. So before getting into your work, Debbie, we want to know about your life before you became the Data Diva. What was it like when you grew up, where it was that and what kinds of conversations did you have with your family when you were a child or teenager?
Debbie Reynolds (04:53):
I was born in Chicago, but I grew up in Gary, Indiana. My parents working class. My father was a mechanical engineer. My mother was nurse. She was very into education. So I think we were the only people on the block that had the whole set of encyclopedia. She would make us read it. And even back then she limited our TV and we made us read the newspaper every day. So I still do a lot of those things today, but very interested in education and learning and having us explore different things. Actually, my foray into data privacy is because of my mother. In the 1997, she read a book called The Right to Privacy. And I think Caroline Kennedy was one of the coauthors of this book.
Debbie Reynolds (05:39):
And she was fascinated by the idea of what was private and what wasn't. And I read this book and it just caught my attention and I never forgot it. So from that point on, I really started following the data privacy things that were happening, not only in the US, but abroad. The internet was very new at that point. So this was before all the technology and all the data that's being collected. So I never thought that this sort of my hobby, it will become something that will become a business for me.
David Reynolds (06:11):
I was getting ready to ask what led you to investigate and pursue your career around data. And you've just answered that perfectly. And one of the things that you really focus on a lot is this GDPR that we've mentioned. And so what's the ultimate goal of that being one of personal control of one's data, how does such a significant law actually impact individuals or is the GDPR really one of those quote unquote corporate things that doesn't ripple into the average person's life. I'm asking something that you likely hear often. Do we need to understand this law or do we blindly click on the, I agree button that accompanies those kazillion paragraphs that legalese that on a consumer and user rights on websites?
Debbie Reynolds (06:55):
Good question. Let me just back up a bit and talk a little bit about the origin of privacy in the EU due to the atrocities of Nazi Germany, the EU put a Mirror Constitution, basically that privacy wasn't a fundamental human rights. And again, this is before computers. But at over the decades, they've tried to codify that sentiment into laws. So GDPR, it wasn't the first law about privacy that EU had. But it was the first one that had very large fines for corporations if they didn't follow it. For example, the directive that the EU had before the GDPR was almost as stringent as the GDPR, except it didn't have these huge fines. So that's the reason why people talk about it a lot. That's why corporations are really interested in it.
Debbie Reynolds (07:47):
But on a basic level, they're saying individuals who have a fundamental human right to access their data and that they should have ultimate control. And I think a lot of people here in the US, we sort of think we have that, but we really don't. So the Constitution, we have life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but privacy is not in that unless you're talking about a reasonable search and seizure, and that's just not enough to cover the types of things that are happening today. So that's why I get in conversations with people about data privacy. And we talk a lot about GDPR because currently it's the most comprehensive data privacy regulation in the world.
David Reynolds (08:28):
You've mentioned the really dark origins of the concept of not honoring someone's privacy and how that evolved into the EU saying that privacy is a fundamental human right. Is there anything else you can shed light on regarding what exactly from this chapter in history, from World War II actually served as a foundation for people saying, "No, this needs to be a fundamental right." What was it exactly that triggered that?
Debbie Reynolds (09:01):
What was happening was people were sharing information about other people and people's families were being killed and taken away based on information that was given or whether it was government authorities or someone else. So they thought, because of all this talking amongst people and groups, gathering information on people that they wanted to make sure that people had privacy and they were not put in those types of situations where someone says, "You're this or you're that." And so because of that, we're going to prosecute you.
David Reynolds (09:32):
I get it. It makes great sense. So a law in place today in another continent in Europe is tied in a very real way to one of the most pivotal events in world history. And so that makes me think about history classes that I had in college and high school. And to what extent that coursework was actually connected to my life or that I was aware that it was. Did you find that your experiences in school made those connections between current events and even seemingly innocuous ones having their roots in something that happened long ago, in other words, was history made to come alive for you in that way in school or not?
Debbie Reynolds (10:10):
Not really. I don't think so. Because we didn't really... I don't know. I feel like history, at least in high school was very US centric, obviously covering Nazi Germany. But it's sort of broad strokes, not really all the things that have happened. So for me, I learned a lot more about it in college and just my own reading about some of the atrocities that happened around the world and in Germany. I wish that especially in like elementary or high school, that there were more ties to that. We talked, especially in high school, a lot more about our constitutional rights and obviously cases that came up after that. But I think at this way, it's like I got to college to get more of a worldview, I feel which helped a lot because you hear a little things and you get interested and start reading on your own and going on your own path. So it was a good foray into those areas, but I feel like I had to sort of take those additional steps myself to fill in the blanks.
David Reynolds (11:11):
Was there a course or a class where you felt like this stuff is really meaningful, not necessarily tying to a current event, we can leave that alone for a moment, but this content, this work, this learning experience really does have some connection to what I'm interested in or what I like to do. Think back on your high school or college career and what courses actually did make that connection where you were really engaged in it because it mattered to you.
Debbie Reynolds (11:39):
Interestingly enough, I went to a performing arts high school and I was a drama major. And a lot of the things that I learned there helped me a lot and are somethings that I use every day in my career, like being nervous, knowing how not to be nervous, if you're going to make a speech or being able to convey ideas to people in a simplistic way. So let them connect with you. Not only intellectually, but emotionally at times. So those things helped me quite a lot more than I would have ever thought.
David Reynolds (12:12):
That's really carried over into your YouTube channel because you do these five minute distilled versions of everything you wanted to know about fill in the blank about topics that are extremely significant and might be a little bit hard to wrap your head around and you managed to do that and focus, and then convey that information. You said something about EU, that makes me think about something else I heard you say on one of your YouTube videos, this may have actually been lifted from your interview on the PBS show in Chicago. Is it true that a citizen in the EU can leverage the GDPR to delete his or her data from a company's or agency's records? I thought I heard you say these two very interesting phrases, "A right to be forgotten." And "A right to erase your..." I think that phrase, a right to be forgotten is really something that will make somebody's ear stand up and say, "What does that mean exactly."
Debbie Reynolds (13:09):
Absolutely. So under certain circumstances, a person in the EU, and they don't have to even be a citizen, just if you're in the EU, like when I'm in the EU, the GDPR covers me when I'm there. So the GDPR basically says that an individual can under certain circumstances request that their data be erased almost as if it never existed before.
David Reynolds (13:32):
So are American companies that do business in the EU required to comply with the GDPR. And on a related question is the purging of data and option for a US citizen, as it is for a citizen of the EU.
Debbie Reynolds (13:45):
Corporations do have to follow this. The thing that's unique about the GDPR is that individual's rights travel with their data. So their data is out of the EU is still have to comply with that because the right is tied to the individual. And in the US you don't really have that right to be forgotten. As a matter of fact, let's say, for instance, there's something on Google that you don't like, you can send in a request and tell them that you want to erase so they could decide to do it or not. So they don't have to honor that request. So in that way, they have more authority over your internet presence than you think that they do. Literally, there are some things that they would not erase if they don't want to.
David Reynolds (14:36):
Shift gears a little bit and hit it back to this notion of what takes place in school, but tie it to this data privacy issue, including legislation. What do you think students should be learning about data privacy?
Debbie Reynolds (14:50):
Good question. The students should be learning that things that you put on the internet are basically permanent. So you can't unpost something because once it's up there, it gets sucked into the search engine, it gets associated with you. So you want to make sure that the things in your digital life, if you don't want it to be shown you shouldn't put it up there. So I have nieces and nephews and I tell them, it's like... They're not wild kids. You go to some party or something. You don't want that on social media, if you're going for a job. So really think those things through about what you want. Because kids are fickle. They do different things and they want to hang out with their friends or do certain things. But they may not be thinking about it in the future, like an employer or a bank or someone looking at their social media, be able to make a judgements or assumptions about them. And that may not be the picture that they want to portray.
David Reynolds (15:48):
At what age do you think that students should start learning about data privacy issues? Obviously, there's going to be a different level of detail and sophistication based on the student's age, but what do you think is the right age to start mentioning that? And are there tips you would share with parents then to reinforce what may or may not be addressed in a school setting?
Debbie Reynolds (16:10):
As soon as a kid is on the internet and is able to put content out there or they have a phone and they're able to post content or put information or communicate with people on the internet, parents really need to educate them about what they can do. Thankfully, there are some tools to help parents where they can limit some of the stuff that people have on their phones. I know a guy, what he does, his kids, he doesn't let them take their phones up to their room at night. So he has a box or something. So the phones all go in the box. And then in the day time they get to get their phones back. So it's hard. I mean, I can't imagine what it would have been like when we were going up. Again when I was growing up, there was no internet. So we didn't have bullies that were bullying people after hours on the phones and stuff like that.
Debbie Reynolds (17:00):
So it's just a different landscapes and it really isn't coming on the parents really teach kids what is good and what's bad about posting information on the internet and make sure that they're very careful about what they do on the internet.
David Reynolds (17:14):
And with the pandemic, which has rippled quickly into education, public schools and otherwise, then you've got the teachers and district level, IT directors really immersed in this online world that you've just talked about. So we've got video conferences going on with sister classrooms, whether that's across town or across the world, online coursework, that's emerging. And some other instances, so what should educators or IT directors understand about data privacy in light of the accelerated immersion into online coursework right now.
Debbie Reynolds (17:56):
It's very important that you separate your personal and your professional work in some way. So people do a lot of ways. So let's say you had a computer that you only do work on, or you had a profile on your computer that you only use for work. Being able to separate those things is very important, especially because of like phishing attacks. Because of the pandemic phishing attacks, in terms of the various actors sending emails, and wanting to click on links. People are nervous. People are doing things out of the ordinary. So maybe it's not weird that you get an email from someone who you think is from your IT at work. And they say, "Click on this link." And then you have this virus, it comes on your computer. So being able to separate your personal and your professional stuff in some way, I think it's very important because a lot of times I call mingling is really the start of problems in terms of being able to affect a lot more of your data.
David Reynolds (18:59):
So you mentioned phishing that makes me think about cookies and terms and conditions and consent and related concepts. So educate us on what some of the most important do's and don'ts are related to our online accounts and activities.
Debbie Reynolds (19:17):
Yeah. I recommend to everyone don't just use one browser, maybe get two browsers if you can. Like if you're doing banking or something, you may want that in one browser. And then when you surf the internet just for obnoxious things, you may want that in something else. It's easy to find different browsers for that, just to separate that in some way. Also don't click on links for things that you're not familiar with, or even if it looks suspicious in any way, don't click on the link. Don't open the emails from people that you don't know. If someone sends you a text, you don't know about, you can like delete it. Because it was really important they'll contact you again. So that's really important in terms of basic things people can do, make sure that your computer is up to date. So you know how you get those pesky notices saying that you have update Windows or whatever you definitely want to do those.
Debbie Reynolds (20:13):
You definitely want to reboot your computer. A lot of people keep their computers on constantly. You want to reboot it at least once a week. I try and do mine once a day, actually, because that way your computer can refresh and it gets all the updates that it needs to get so that you're not disturbed. I get annoyed when I'm trying to do something and it's asked me to do updates. So what I do is I reboot my computer at the end of the day and let it do the updates. And then in the morning, I don't have to worry about that. So other things definitely don't share passwords. Don't put passwords on post-it notes, on monitors or things like that. That's one of the major ways that people get into people's system.
Debbie Reynolds (20:53):
They say don't reuse passwords, but it's so hard because we have so many different accounts and it's hard to remember everything. I highly recommend you get a password manager. So that way you're writing down the password into like a digital wall and you're not posting them anywhere, or you're not writing down or anything. And that will help you be able to manage your online accounts better.
David Reynolds (21:15):
And with that, you would have one password to get into your password manager or your protected spreadsheet or whatever. And then you can look up what you like. So I think about all the terms that you just mentioned that are familiar words to us, but they have a completely different meaning. We've said cookies, surfing, phishing, Windows, all those things meant something completely different 20 years ago, maybe even more recently than that. And so technology really has created a lot of new words or a lot of new meanings for old words. I saw recently the acronym FIDO or FIDO. Now I know that's not the family's dog is some technology term. So I'm guessing that you, the Data Diva will definitely know what this is. So what is FIDO and what should we know about it?
Debbie Reynolds (22:05):
FIDO is a methodology that says that people can access information without using passwords. So it's basically a set of principles that companies can adopt with the way that they implement their technology. So it doesn't need to use a password in the traditional sense. That can be achieved in many different ways. Let's say you have a file or some sort of a proximity key that can help you get into different Vaults. Password managers are in some ways are considered password lists, especially if you're having your application connect to the Vault. So you don't actually have to go in and find the password is actually doing that transaction for you. So it is a really important initiative because passwords are one of the easiest ways that people can have their accounts compromised. So being able to have a way that people can access accounts without passwords means that it makes it even harder for a bad actor to be able to get into your system and do something.
David Reynolds (23:10):
And you're telling our listeners things that you might assume in your line of work are common knowledge, common sense, and everybody has heard it before, but then the fact that you're sharing it with seeming ease means that you do have to share these types of things regularly, because everybody's at a different place on the learning spectrum with regard to their familiarity with technology and the latest shifts and changes. I'm assuming that you've had opportunities to work with representatives for companies that are really at a true .0 with regard to their awareness and knowledge about data security, laws, and pitfalls, or how to comply with those legal requirements. Maybe somebody that's starting a new enterprise, for example, they wouldn't know the same amount of information or wouldn't have had the same experiences or maybe even problems that they'd had to call in and have someone help them troubleshoot. As someone who's been in the business for a while, so how does your work with a brand new client differ from your work with a veteran business person?
Debbie Reynolds (24:13):
I was trying to figure out where people are. It's not easy to do. And as an educator, you know that this is true. I've tried to speak to two audiences at once. So one is, I'm assuming that the person doesn't really know a lot about what I'm talking about, and then there's enough content in there for people who are more advanced to be able to grasp what I'm talking about as well. So it's a hard balancing act. What I try to do it as best as I can. One of the best things that I like to tell people, especially people starting out with a new business, you want to make sure to think through the type of data that you want to collect and only collect what you think that you need. We are over collectors of information, especially in the US I saw someone, they were in some store and they were doing some transactions.
Debbie Reynolds (25:02):
They had nothing to do with credit or anything like that. But literally the store was asking people for their Social Security Number to do these transactions. And I thought, there's no way, I was going to go buy a pair of shoes. Aren't going to give you my Social Security Number. So we have to be cognizant of that as business owners, making sure that we're not collecting more data than we need. A lot of the companies that have a lot of legacy data, that's one of their major problems. They have a ton of data. They don't know why they have it. They click way too much. So data minimization, to me, especially as a new business, it puts you ahead of the pack because you're thinking about those things before you even get started.
David Reynolds (25:39):
So you're really describing this notion of differentiating the content or the transmission of knowledge to learners on different points on the spectrum, which is what teachers have to do every day. And you said it's kind of difficult to do. Can you remember an instance where one of your teachers engaged very well, very proficiently in what you just described. In other words, when did a teacher help demystify something as you do with technology for maybe you and your classmates?
Debbie Reynolds (26:08):
Again, I'll probably have to reach back to my drama stuff in high school. I have a teacher, he was actually quoting a famous acting writer, her name is Stanislavski. And the one thing he said to me is that attention commands attention. So being able to be focused when you're talking to people helps get their attention to make sure that they're listening to what you're trying to say. A lot of times we have a lot of thoughts in our heads. We have a lot of things we want to say, but being able to do it in a way where you're commanding the attention of the person or the audience that you're looking at, it's very important.
David Reynolds (26:45):
In order to command that attention, you have to have some street cred, the people you're talking with have to know that you really do know what you're talking about. So how did you become such an expert in your area? You told us how it started with this interest around 1996 ish or so. So you've really been immersed in this since almost its genesis. So you've been there all on the way, but how have you become the Data Diva and the person that people turn to, at these Fortune 500 companies and elsewhere to seek you out to secure your service and support?
Debbie Reynolds (27:21):
Along my journey in data privacy, I was also working for Fortune 500 companies on data movements around the world for illegal cases. And before privacy became a big thing, it was just another check box on the list. So for me, it was just something that I had just been doing for so long. And a lot of those people knew that I knew that these laws, I knew how to help them with their data movements around the world. So they started contacting me literally about the data privacy stuff, and actually one of the earlier things that happened, it was really interesting. I was speaking on a panel and a lady in the audience was from a McDonald's Corporation. And she asked me to come speak to their corporate legal department about data privacy. And this was before GDPR actually. So I went there for all their corporate legal folks.
Debbie Reynolds (28:12):
I think they had like 150 lawyers at that point. I spoke at their headquarters here in Oak Brook. It was in the Big Mac room, with the save a Big Mac. And it was like the UN for the sake like a Big Mac, right? So it was really interesting. So for me, that was a first foray into just straight data privacy. People, they really wanted to hear what I had to say. Because they knew that I had been working on these issues for many, many years. So a lot of people didn't understand why we in the US were concerned about a regulation in the European Union. So it was really eye opening. It was really interesting even to look at the presentation about the stuff that I was talking about then, and that's stuff that we're talking about right now, because it's really impacting businesses and how they operate.
Debbie Reynolds (28:55):
And also C-Suite people are looking at it very closely because they don't want to incur the types of fines, which could be up to 4% of a company's worldwide revenue for a year. So they're taking this pretty seriously, I think. I think they're looking to see the types of fines that are coming down or the types of other... What other companies are doing about data privacy. So I think that's really interesting.
David Reynolds (29:20):
Who demystifies things for you now, we'll keep going back to that word because it's what you do. But if you're on the leading edge, who do you turn to and how do you stay just ahead of the curve so that the information you're providing for your clients and those that you teach and serve is actually going to be helpful to them. And it's not outdated because become outdated fairly quickly.
Debbie Reynolds (29:44):
I always follow the technology and not the law because the technology preceeds the law. The law is very reactive. So I like to be able to look at that. And then I also talk to people who don't know anything about privacy. So if I can't convey the information to someone who doesn't know anything about it, then I have to go back to the drawing board. So it has to be simple enough for someone who doesn't know anything about privacy and have enough content for someone who does know something about privacy, to be able to learn something from it. Oh, and one other thing I saw about two months ago, the Apple was coming out with this new OS, iOS 14. And it had unprecedented privacy features like you being able to opt in, instead of opt out of certain marketing advertising, it would tell you what apps were listening to you.
Debbie Reynolds (30:38):
What apps are recording you. It will let you be able to say whether you wanted an app to track you, your exact location or your approximate location. And all of these things will be shaking up the ad industry because they're so accustomed to having as much data as they want about anybody they want for anything. So, one other thing, a really big one is, and this is a capability that Apple's had as long as I can remember, is that apps can read your clipboard. So let's say you copy a password. Do you want to use another app? Even before you paste it into the other app, there are other apps on your phone that can actually read your passwords, which is a problem. So let's say you may have a flashlight application on your phone, and it literally may be able to read your password if you're trying to copy somewhere else.
Debbie Reynolds (31:28):
Only because they built the capability into the app to do it. So this iOS 14, what they're going to do is tell you what apps are trying to read your clipboard, and you could turn it on or off. So advertisers in my mind, I thought this is definitely going to shake up the ad industry and be a major thing. So yesterday Facebook came out with an article saying that they think that this iOS update that's coming out, I think a September may cut their certain types of ad revenue by 50%.
David Reynolds (32:00):
That's unbelievably significant for the industry. And the other significant piece that you just mentioned is probably the near total lack of awareness on an end user's part, mine, for example, until you just shared this, that copying a password from a password protected spreadsheet, or from anywhere, from a password generator website, anything like that, even momentarily, once you hit that keystroke sequence for the copy command, that it could be captured by somebody else. So that really tells us that we should probably not do that as often as we do and that we should type it in as opposed to pasting it in.
David Reynolds (32:49):
Let's give a nod to the others out there in data privacy land Debbie, who were, or are your mentors. You're definitely an autodidact and you go after this stuff, but who else helps?
Debbie Reynolds (33:01):
Wow. I have a lot of friends and colleagues internationally where we always talk and it's always mind blowing conversations with them. One out of South Africa is Dawid Jacobs. He's building systems where banks and different institutions can verify someone's identity using biometrics. It's really fascinating. You can go on the internet right now and create like 10 email addresses. You're only one person. So even though you have 10 email addresses, you're not 10 different people. Some people, especially hackers or whatever, they use that to their advantage. So they may create or build these sort of fake identity so they can do different things on the internet. So he's doing things. They can stop that because a lot of fraud happens because people can create these false identities. Also Stephanie. She's in Copenhagen. And she's great. She actually wrote a paper not long ago, explaining contact tracing apps.
Debbie Reynolds (33:59):
And it was the most thorough dissection of that topic. She talks really deeply about how phones or how the apps work in different countries. And that's really fascinating. And then I have Emma Lindley. She's in England, she's a client of mine. She used to be the identity manager at Visa, and she runs a Women in Identity organization now, this a global organization for women who are working in the space. Identity is more than just, you have a password, being able to log in. Is who you are, you have a, what people call a digital twin on the internet. So you have things that you do on the internet that represent you. So it's sort of like you have a whole other person on the internet, that's digital. So she talks a lot about that and also about bias in algorithms and why we need to be able to figure out this of a technological sense because computers really only do what we tell them to do. So we want them to be able to take the bias out of those situations.
David Reynolds (35:00):
It sounds like it would be virtually impossible to really know what's coming next. So in light of that, there could be trends, there could be some research being done that is providing hints, even public hands of about the next horizon, for all things technology, all things data privacy, but in the absence of specifics, what can schools do to be prepared so they can be appropriately responsive for whatever the next digital changes that occur, is not knowing what it is, but what would you suggest that schools, educational institutions do in order to be ready?
Debbie Reynolds (35:39):
It is important educational institutions need to be transparent with their customer, which is the student or their parents about the types of data that they keep and how long they keep it. Let's say, for instance, taking temperatures. Now we go places, people are taking your temperature. And a lot of people are recording that information. Some states like the state of Illinois, if you record that information, then you don't let the person know in advance, how long you intend to keep it, that may be against the law. I've talked to businesses all the time, they have to take temperatures of people. And I tell them the best you can do is not record it before a long period of time. Or if you record it, definitely put up a limit on how long you got to get the information. How long do you need to know that Jimmy had a fever two weeks ago because schools now are collecting more health information. They have to be more careful with how they store that information and make sure that they only keep what they think they need.
David Reynolds (36:38):
You've touched on a lot of other topics in that quick mention of two or three networked colleagues, mentors that help you stay current with everything that's going on. Is there any other area that you want to leave a brief comment or two about, or just mention, because it's really interesting to you.
Debbie Reynolds (36:58):
The thing's really interesting to me is facial recognition or bias that comes along with that. It's really an important topic because it touches everyone. It touches every country, every creed, every color, anyone. Let's say, for instance, you have an account that was compromised and they took your password. You can change your password. You can get a new credit card, but if someone uses your biometric information, they're literally impersonating you. And how can you counter that? Someone says, "Well, it was your fingerprint to open this lock." So there's like no recourse or anything. And then there's a problem with facial recognition and a mistaken identity where a lot of these tools are not very accurate, especially on people of color. So they have a lot of false positives. I think there was a guy about a month ago, he was literally arrested because they thought that his picture from his driver's license matches this person on video camera. And they figured out that it wasn't him, but what if they didn't, this is like a huge problem.
David Reynolds (38:00):
So people may make the assumption that facial rec software is as accurate as fingerprinting. And that is creating problems for people even in the criminal justice system. Is that correct?
Debbie Reynolds (38:12):
Absolutely, because it isn't, it is not as accurate as fingerprint.
David Reynolds (38:17):
Why do you think some people think that it is because they can look at their phone and have it open for, they think, Oh, this must be so individualized or they load into a belief about the accuracy of this technology.
Debbie Reynolds (38:30):
I think people assume that computers are smarter than they are. So computers are just doing functions that you tell it to do fast. So if I'm biased, the computer could be biased because I'm the person that's creating the program. Also a big problem, facial recognition. There just aren't really any standards about how accurate it has to be. So a company selling the tool, they'll say, "Oh, it was a hundred percent accurate." You don't have any basis or you can't even compare it to anything really.
David Reynolds (39:02):
So there'd be no standard for how many points on a face might need to be included into their algorithm or what the tolerance would be for measurements between the certain features and that sort of thing. Is that what you mean? It could be sloppily done.
Debbie Reynolds (39:16):
Oh, absolutely. And then two, we're talking about people, we're not talking about statistics and this kind of just makes me a little upset when I think about it. So if you say something has a 30% error rate, that's like 30 people, you're going to send 30 people to jail because this is inaccurate. No, that's not.... That don't work that way.
David Reynolds (39:33):
And even if you have a 2% error rate, but they say this is so far superior to the industry standard that still two real people who may be wrongly accused of or convicted of something based on flawed technology, which we are now equating with expert status, when it's not that at all. Let's leave the data privacy conversation where it is and move to our closing moment. Tell us about your favorite teacher and why you honor that person with that best award. With that title. If you have to share more than one name, of course feel free. So who and why?
Debbie Reynolds (40:10):
My favorite teacher was one of my high school drama teachers say Mr. Bean. He's no longer with us, but he helped me a lot to be able to sort of move out of my shell. And he helped me with, teaching's not just about information on a page. It's also about life skills or being able to learn how to communicate with one another, be able to convey a message. Those are all really important things that I learned from him. So to me, it's like education plus, it's like learning, learning a skill learning information, but also learning how to move through the world.
David Reynolds (40:45):
It sounds like he probably knew you quite well also as an individual.
Debbie Reynolds (40:50):
Yeah, he was great.
David Reynolds (40:52):
Well, thanks Debbie, for enlightening all of us today, I'm going to make sure that this podcast episode is not password protected so that everybody can listen to it. And I really enjoyed our time together. Have a great day.
Debbie Reynolds (41:04):
Fantastic. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I think we're probably related somehow.
David Reynolds (41:10):
We have to be somewhere. Thanks.
Debbie Reynolds (41:13):
Thank you so much.
David (41:16):
Thanks for listening today. Find the Lead. Learn. Change podcast on your search engine, iTunes or other listening app. Leave a rating, write a review, subscribe and share with others. In the meantime, go lead, go learn, go make a change, go.