Dr. Felicia Mayfield will inspire you with her wisdom, educate you with her story, and compel you to make a difference with your talents and your time. This educator’s approach to life is deeply embedded in her view of the world, her interactions with others, and her hope for the change that relationships and learning can generate. Join Felicia as she provides insights from the perspective of a self-described “child of civil rights,” reflecting on the day Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., was assassinated, her childhood growing up in a mission, nearly half of a century as an educator, and as a key figure in actions taken as a result of litigation addressing desegregation. Her faith, convictions, and professionalism have permeated all of her experiences, and her optimism about the noble field of education grows stronger each year. Join our guest as she touches on concepts such as social media, social justice, and social responsibility, mentions the role that historically black colleges have played–and can play–in advocacy for everyone, and discusses the balance between research and practice in the teaching and learning process. Felicia is a master gardener, a keeper of the dream, a mother and grandmother, and a true professional, in every sense of the word. This is an episode you will definitely want to share with others.
Clark Atlanta University, one of 101 Historically Black Colleges and Universities in the nation (3:05)
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. attended college on this campus (3:25)
Social mobility through education (5:05)
Three times a Panther (6:05)
Identified as a future leader in DeKalb County Schools (7:00)
Year 45 and counting – a lifetime dedicated to serving others (9:00)
A court order and Felicia’s first teaching position (9:20)
Nearly a dozen languages spoken in the school (10:05)
Seven years, seven years, seven years… (10:25)
Too many principals of color in some schools (11:05)
Education as the most noble field (12:45)
Teachers perpetuate democracy (13:15)
A child of civil rights (13:50)
A fabulous childhood, in a mission (15:05)
A southern midwestern accent (16:35)
There is something bigger than you (17:15)
The Wallace Foundation, Gwinnett Public Schools, and the Principal Pipeline (18:00)
A teacher’s impact is significant (18:45)
The leader must have the big picture (20:00)
Even when you think big, there’s something bigger (21:20)
Leveraging power to impact a community (22:15)
1953, heart of the civil rights struggle, and a segregated community (23:30)
The “mission of the mission” was pushed by the black aristocracy (24:20)
New Orleans, Dubuque, and Memphis (25:20)
The common enemy was never based on someone’s race (25:50)
The good, and the evil, that is colorless (27:30)
Skin tone, or something else, as a core issue? (28:30)
Are you here to contribute, or are you here to take away? (29:40)
It was right in the middle of a housing project (31:10)
This was definitely a bifurcated community (32:20)
Fathers and mothers were paying attention to a lot of things (33:00)
Happy to be able to be an ambassador for my race (35:00)
Had to prove myself, and I had to make all A’s (35:30)
Segregation was about capacity (35:45)
These women were very progressive (36:20)
We need to make sure that everyone has a voice (37:30)
My mother wanted me to go into education (37:50)
Overwhelming sadness (38:35)
The haze as the sun was setting was orange (39:35)
Our home received a phone call (39:55)
Lessons learned from the civil rights struggle and Dr. King’s assassination (41:20)
There is a significant price paid when one person advances at the expense of another (42:25)
What gives birth to civil wars (43:40)
Educator-leaders are in the middle to mitigate our struggles (44:00)
The risk of forgetting (44:45)
Faith and hope that we will continue to do well, learn, listen, and improve (46:20)
Understanding the human condition, everyone has a voice, and emerging from oppression (47:00)
We are learning on a broader screen (48:30)
Working to harvest the best gifts (48:55)
Empowerment, respect, and using the best of what people have to offer (49:45)
History of women’s needs not being met (50:55)
Outcasts, outsiders, and social responsibility (51:15)
I have a responsibility to share what works (52:30)
This is a wonderful time, with so many rich examples of leadership (53:45)
We know what goes into being successful (54:30)
You can “get the call back” after a mistake is made (55:00)
A leader will not make a perfect call every time (55:35)
Systems theory and vision – long-term and right now (57:25)
You must have an undergirding of service to others (58:10)
Personal care shows–in your face, your countenance, and your productivity (59:40)
Don’t work out your inadequacies on social media (1:00:00)
To lead means that you are giving your best self (1:02:10)
Social justice defined as advocacy (1:03:10)
Dr. Moses Norman - insert yourself into a dark place and turn on the light (1:05:00)
I want my experience to be of benefit to someone else (1:07:30)
Leadership and popularity (1:08:20)
The benefits of the earlier harvest (1:08:50)
Do justly, love mercy, walk humbly (1:10:00)
Retirement just keeps moving away from me (1:10:40)
Dr. Fidel Turner and Barbara Hill providing leadership at CAU (1:11:30)
The History of Black Catholics in the United States https://www.amazon.com/dp/0824514955/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_ysvrEbK92EG5V
David Reynolds: What matters most in learning, the challenge, the thrill, the benefits, interacting with other people or something else entirely? What is the connection between leading and learning? Does change drive learning or does learning drive change? What's more important, teaching or learning? Is everyone a leader, a learner, a teacher? Want answers, listen in as we address these intriguing issues through commentary and with guests who share their thinking and tell us their stories. Lead. Learn. Change.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: I’m very privileged and honored to be an educator because I was indeed part of the future of this great democracy and experiment called the United States of America. Yes, the teaching job was on the Court order and the second assignment as principal was actually under Supreme Court order. Things were then set on fire so the haze as the sun was setting was orange. I shall never forget the sky being orange.
My first filter is something very different and that is what are you here to do? A leader will not make a perfect call every time. If everybody's going along with you, watch out something may not be right here. Popularity does not equal leadership. It is a shame for you to have to work out your inadequacies on a stage of social media. You need to be in a place where you can divest up-self and invest in the people you serve. I want what I have experienced to matter for someone else. Oh my goodness, there's so much to learn and so much to teach.
David Reynolds: Today's guest on Lead. Learn. Change. is Dr. Felicia Mayfield. Felicia, thank you so much for taking your time to speak with me today.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Thank you for the invitation.
David Reynolds: Well, as always, it's great to talk with you. As my wife said to me when she learned I was interviewing you, she said, "You have always liked her, haven't you?" Of course I said yes because you were so gracious and welcoming the first time that we met and nothing has changed since. You and I first met at a PAGE sponsored Future Georgia Educators event at Clark Atlanta University and for our listeners who may not be familiar with Clark Atlanta, we should point out that Clark Atlanta is one of only 101 historically Black colleges and universities in the United States and it shares its campus with Spelman College and Morehouse College on what is called Atlanta University Center and that's just minutes from the heart of downtown Atlanta, Georgia.
It was on this campus at Morehouse that Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. attended college and on the day I met you, I had the opportunity to walk around campus a bit and view some amazing artifacts in the Clark Atlanta University library. I saw handwritten notes with marginal comments from Dr. King's speeches, I saw invitations to him to visit the school and photographs and other really historic items. Is there anything else you would like to tell us about Clark Atlanta and its rich history or its current emphasis and your work there?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Well, thank you for the question and thank you for this opportunity to share. Yes, indeed there is a very rich history in both of those schools. The origin of Clark Atlanta University dates back to 1865 and 1869, because there are two institutions involved, Atlanta University and Clark College. Atlanta University touts in its history as being the first graduate school in Atlanta so yes, it's a very rich history. Its origins were to accommodate those who were not accepted into mainstream state schools at the time.
David Reynolds: You told me when we met a couple of years ago that Clark Atlanta nurtures learners, especially first-generation college attendees and that one of the phrases that stuck with me was that Clark Atlanta is a keeper of the dream. I think you referenced or described keeper of the dream as the dream of social mobility through education. Is there anything you'd like to say about the nurturing of learners and the keeper of the dream?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Well, the first thing that people... The first impression people get when they come on campus is a family atmosphere. When we're talking about higher education and we're talking about advancing lives and indeed advancing families and future generations, then it takes on a whole new meaning. Then if you put that family concept inside of a tradition with the United Methodist Church, then you see that you have a larger, a more global vision and perspective that actually incorporates the faith-base community as well. Yes, Clark Atlanta University, as it is now is a United Methodist affiliated institution.
David Reynolds: You're Dr. Mayfield so do you want to give a quick shout out to the places where you've earned your degrees?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Well, actually yes. The first three degrees are from Georgia State University. I am a proud alumni of Georgia State University. In fact, I am the immediate past president of the alumni. We call them chairs, chairman of the boards. At Georgia State University, I am currently a trustee at Georgia State University so I have a very proud connection with that institution. I am a proud [Panther 00:06:39] so both of them are Panthers so I'm a triple Panther at Georgia State and a Panther at Clark Atlanta University.
Clark Atlanta University had a partnership with Dekalb schools years ago in the 90s and isn’t that interesting to say years ago in the 90s. There was a cohort of 17 of us selected from Dekalb schools. We were to be the future leaders and a partnership was designed between Clark Atlanta and Dekalb schools. The superintendent was very interested in having future leaders prepared. With that, we were able to participate in a doctoral program that was custom designed to meet the needs of Dekalb schools at the time.
David Reynolds: We are going to cycle back to that notion of leadership because you said some things to me a few years back about that, that you seem to really want to emphasize as far as the importance of it. You have had some amazing experiences that have shaped who you are and your beliefs and how you interact with everybody and how you approach teaching and learning.
Let's go back Felicia, you said the 1990s but I'm going to go back a little further to the 70s and talk about your first job as a teacher at Warren Elementary in Chamblee and that job's connection to a court order, which grew out of originally Pits versus Cherry, a case that was filed in 1969, but it was litigated for like 10 years. Then that original case morphed into two others Freeman versus Pits and then Preman versus Mills and that actually wasn't dismissed until 1997, which was almost 30 years after the original suit was filed but it just shows you how involved those court cases were. You have a connection as a new teacher with all of this in a very interesting way. Please share your connection, that first teaching job, the court case and how all that intertwines.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Yes. I still think of Warren with fond memories when I pass it on Chamblee Tucker, it is now a center for vocational training for special needs students. But at that time, and I'm going to have to put a plug in for myself at that time, it was the 75-76 school year and I'm celebrating 45 years. This school year is my 45th year in education so it still puts a smile on my face, but in all seriousness my assignment there was under a court order at the time and it had to do with people of color being hired and yes, I was under a court order to come into the faculty but I was embraced and I embraced my community. I will always look back on it as a fond time, Mr. James Coddle, he was just a jewel. He was the principal and I just still have very fond memories of all of that.
Even with the backdrop of there being something very serious going on, I felt very comfortable. I remember having close to a dozen languages being spoken in my school and I considered it quite an honor to be in that setting and to engage with the students and to have the students engage with me. I considered it a rich opportunity. From that, I will say that I have a sort of interesting school career following that I spent seven years as a teacher, seven years as an assistant principal, seven years as a principal, seven years as a coordinator and seven as a cabinet level administrator working directly with the superintendents, all of them were very rich experiences.
But yes, the teaching job was one that was on the court order and the second assignment as principal was actually under Supreme Court order, the 1994 ruling that there were too many principals of color in schools of color and therefore they were perpetuating the notion of segregation. I did move to another school in my principalship. Yes, it's been rich. It's been wonderful and David because of the way I look at things, it was also ordained in a very special way. None of this was by happenstance. It was for the people to enrich my lives, the boys and girls to pour into me and for me to pour into the boys and girls.
David Reynolds: You're touching on the things I want to ask you about. I do want to cycle back to that part also where we talk about your view of or almost a definition of segregation or prejudice because yours is completely different. It's not along the lines that people think it might be so I want to cycle back to that.
You've reflected on those assignments and those initial moves to those places, even though they are result of a court order as very positive experiences. In the time since that first job at Warren Elementary, what have you discovered matters most in teaching and learning? Because it seems like you've just leapfrogged the court order component of the sorts of things, these mandates by external forces and just said, I'm here to teach or I'm here to lead. That's what I hear. How did you handle any difficulties that arose and what have you learned as what matters most in teaching and learning?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Well, I have two points of view and the first one is, when I went into education, I was told that it was the most noble field. I have no reason to believe that it was anything other than that. I bought into it being the most noble field that one could actually learn and train and lead. The reason I was told that it was the most noble field was that teachers perpetuate democracy because without an informed citizenry, you have no democracy so I felt very privileged and honored to be an educator because I was indeed part of the future of this great democracy and experiment called the United States of America. In that, any bumps and scrapes and bruises along the way, I put them in the tally as this is par for democracy and the development of this great experiment called the United States of America.
Yes, indeed I was the child of civil rights. We were in the heat of it. I was born and raised in my early years in Memphis, Tennessee and I was there in high school. Two miles away, less than two miles away from my home where King was shot. It was not only an impact on me, it was an impact on our neighborhood. We could physically see and hear the changes in the neighborhood at that time. Those things are still in my mind, but I also had a larger view that again everything that I was doing, I was participating in this big experiment called the United States of America and in this experiment called democracy and with experiments, if you know and think about science, things go well some days and things don't go as well sometimes but there's always information.
The other thing, I said there were two things, there's a backdrop that I bring to this whole notion and I know that's something that psychologists and psychiatrists want to know. Well, what was it like in your childhood? Well, I had a fabulous childhood and I will point out that our... Where we lived, where we prayed and where we learned was all in a very small knit close community and in that, learning experience, I must say that my first teachers were nuns, this was a Catholic mission, if you will and the base of the providers of the education was the mother house of the sisters of the blessed Virgin Mary out of Dubuque, Iowa and they were dedicated. At that time, their mission was to rescue, save and educate Indians and what they refer to as Negro missions at the time.
Again, that was all a part of this evolving experiment called the United States, but what a wonderful opportunity to have that type of education from those women. I appreciate that to this day and I keep in contact with them to this day and thank them for the gift and the treasure they gave me and because a lot of people will stop and say to me, even now, they'll say, "I can't pick up your accent." I'll say, "It's a Southern Midwestern accent. My mother is from Chicago, my teachers were all from the Midwest and so I have a Southern Midwestern accent." It sort of helps them a little bit.
But the thing about these early educators in that close-knit community, that was indeed faith-base is that these women did not receive compensation, a very revolutionary type of thinking and investment in what they believed in. I developed that. I brought that with me into my career, that there is something bigger than you, and it's that faith-base connection and this commitment to the democracy, one man one vote, one person one vote, and the significance of this grand experiment for which I believe education is significant.
If I could give just a little bit of a background here, I had the wonderful opportunity to be invited by Gwinnett Schools to participate in it's Wallace Foundation efforts and initiative through the principal pipeline. Through that initiative, there were research based strategies developed going forward with what was necessary for success as a principal or as a leader and then looking back at what indeed the research was saying about the significant role of leadership particular in the school, the lives of an individual who was a learner, the little kids.
Yes, we know that the impact of the teacher is significant. We've seen that research, we know that a learner flourishes or languishes we get that. But then the Wallace Foundation funded research and examined existing research on what is the role of leaders and we've come to find out in looking at that leadership that yes, a leader it's one leader or one principal for example, in a school and there may be 40 or 50 teachers or 20 in a very small school or as many I'm thinking of Mill Creek and you may have hundreds when you approach 4,000 and I'm amazed at the breadth and depth of the influence that one person would have.
Well, that's a city, that's a good size town if it's not a city and so the investment, then you look very carefully at teachers, you look at the teacher shortage, we did a big study with this, with the P-20 collaborative of which I was the strategic lead for four years and that's an examination of all of the common issues in the Metro Atlanta area that involve both the universities and the school, the shared responsibility of leadership from the Metro Atlanta area. We landed on it on the significant role of the leader, especially with respect to school climate. With that, the leader makes or breaks the environment. I am very pleased with the research that was done with quality measures where they identified actual, the scientific part.
But let me just put it in layman's terms, the leader must have the big picture. There must be the big picture and even if you look at your big picture, there's got to be one bigger than that. You take into consideration your learner, you take into consideration the teacher and everything the teacher has to go through and you're doing this at the same time you're taking into consideration the entire school and the system. It's kind of systems theory and everything is linked to everything else. I think that a leader with the it factor is able to grasp the complexity of the universe of the learner, the complexity that even when you think big, there's something even bigger that's impacted.
Here you are as a leader and that puts you in a pivotal role where you can do extreme good or extreme harm. With that power if you will, I'm careful the way I use the word power, but with that power, that's a new concept. If power has never been introduced to you as a child, never been introduced to you in your formal training, how do you manage power with knowing that there is a purpose to bring the best of life experiences to those children, to those teachers, to the community. Then you may be very apt to mismanage power and miss your it because your it is how do you leverage the power given to you to impact the greatest good for that community?
David Reynolds: All of these thoughts and beliefs were not shaped solely by research in your reading and participation, but by your experiences including those where you served in different leadership roles and especially the earliest years of your experience as a learner with the sisters that you talked about earlier. I want to back up now to your childhood and talk about some of your earliest memories before you became a teacher.
Your childhood really is unique, and it's going to be eye opening to virtually everybody listening to your story. Tell us about the mission that you grew up on in Memphis and when you say mission, what does that actually mean? Because somebody says you grew up on a mission, what does that mean? There are so many other questions that this mention generates like, why were you there? What was life like? I know you're going to mention poverty. I think you mentioned a $2 tuition from one of your earliest memories because you just talked about compensation a minute ago for the sisters, integration and segregation and of course the sisters, which you've mentioned multiple times, so share anything and everything you'd like us to know about that experience.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Well, thank you. This was in the... This experience I was born in 53, so that's the heart of the quote unquote civil rights struggle and we were in a segregated community at the time. We had the fortune of having a neighborhood mission and that was to proselytize and to raise the standard of living for those in the community. Now, interestingly enough, the procurement of the nuns at this mission, the mission was called Saint Augustan and the mission was pushed by the elite or the black aristocracy of the city, the doctors, the lawyers, that sort of thing. Here we have a mission that's designed to pull everyone up out of the ashes and to bring them to Christ and to proselytize and these were very capable people.
But there was a gentleman by the name of Dr. Hoses and he had in his background heard and experienced in New Orleans about the Sisters of Charity of the Blessed Virgin Mary so he actually petitioned with others to have a mission placed in Memphis, Tennessee. We have two contrasting notions here. We have one of the aristocracy wanting to protect in a private school setting. Then on the other hand, we have these, the benevolent nuns of the North coming down to rescue and it made for a wonderful combination. It really did. My first understanding of civil rights and integration and segregation was that the common enemy we all had was evil. The common enemy in our family was never divided in by race. In fact, in this entire mission experience where all of the basic structural expenses were taken care of, now that I look back by the archdiocese at that time, it was just the diocese.
But nevertheless, mission in that instance meant there was a financial dependency to cover the expenses for books and furnishings. We went to a very nice school. We went to mass every morning. We were fully educated. There were a lot of people in the rooms. I do remember the classrooms being extremely large and that was the only criticism that the public schools would leverage against us. My goodness, over at Saint Augustan, they have really, really large classes but we were taught self-discipline.
A lot of things that we were taught I am to this day appreciative of what we were provided but I am happy because when I went into each of my tough situations as a teacher and indeed at Georgia State as a second wave integration in the 70s, I never saw it in terms of Black and White and I know that sounds so naive and it sounds so cliche-ish, but I was always looking for the good that was colorless and I was looking for the evil that was colorless. I knew that there was a good out there to pursue, and I knew that there was an evil out there to avoid and mitigate.
David Reynolds: You make me think of something I jotted down two years ago or three years ago. You said that evil is the desire to exert unjust control over others and that you disagree with the currently quite prevalent view that people who say they don't see color cannot be culturally sensitive or wise. I believe you even mentioned, I didn't capture this in writing, but it seems you sort of looked around the world in your mind's eye for a moment and said, here's an example of why I know that it's really not about skin tone or skin color, these issues of segregation or divisiveness, can you expand on that a little bit and what you meant.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Yes, absolutely, growing up one of the concerns, one of the places we watched, I know we watched the Middle East in the news quite a bit, but at that time we were looking at Ireland and we were looking at the struggle that the Catholics and Protestants were going through and I knew this was not a function of skin color but of one group exerting itself at the expense of another. Yes, my views are not popular in many settings. When I say that's not my filter, skin tone is not my filter. I may get around to it if I need to but skin tone is not my filter.
Again, that is not a popular view. That is one that is criticized. You can't be culturally sensitive if you don't take into consideration and I hope I take into consideration every human being, but my first filter is something very different and that is what are you here to do? Are you here to contribute or are you here to take away? If you're here to contribute, I'm going to align my resources. If you're here to take away, I'm going to try to do my best to set the example because that's, I can't be intrusive. I'm going to set the best example I can of how this life the way I live is better than taking away and so that goes with little bitty kids, medium-sized kids, college students, it goes across racial lines. It goes across ethnic lines. It's my truth that has worked for me and I think we miss a lot when we just simply reduce everything to skin color. It's much bigger than that.
David Reynolds: You mentioned this Dr. Hoses who had this idea to embed the mission there for a slightly different reason than some of the other leaders in the community, was everybody in the community of a certain socio-economic status or rank or place a candidate for enrollment or how is it that you were there?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: It was right in the middle of a housing project. Because of segregation everything was right in the middle of everything. Next door to the school was a college LeMoyne College, it's now LeMoyne-Owen and across the street was a housing project which was a high density housing for those who were in dire poverty. Now, yes, those students were invited, there were tuition and waivers so I think the wheel and the desire was the filter. If you wanted to become Catholic, there was quite a bit of proselytizing if you wanted to partake, because there was a strictness there, it wasn't everyone's cup of tea. There was a discipline, there were uniforms and if you self-selected, I believe that they would make every effort to accommodate you for some adjusted tuition fee. But by no means, did it escape me. It was not missed on me that this was definitely a bifurcated community.
There were even in this community of all people of mostly color, we had a little mixing going on there but there were definitely those who drove up in big cars and those who walked to school. Because it was walking distance, we did both. We drove up in cars and we also walked, it was so close. But I think our father would go with us just to do what good fathers do and that's to make sure that they stay alert and aware of their children's learning environments. I think fathers and mothers were paying attention to a lot of things at that time and I think my father did as well. But yes, it was very clear that there was a mixing that was generally people of color overwhelmingly people of color but there were some class differences that were very clear to me at the time.
David Reynolds: You also seem to be quite aware of things like that at an early age. I remember you talking about your high school experience. It was Sacred Heart School for girls and you told me that you started noticing very clearly during the high school years about a different kind of segregation, which I think is sort of the next level of your understanding that you're referring to from what you saw at the mission. Can you talk about that high school experience a little bit?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Absolutely. After the eighth grade at Saint Augustan, we switched to another facility which was [Saint Thomas 00:34:03], it's since then been renamed to Saint Augustan. But I went to Sacred Heart for girls. It was a new thing to do because there was a high school of color that my brothers went to, was Father Bertrand High School, my brothers who were older, nine, 10, and 13 years older than me, they all went to Father Bertrand. At this time, there was a lot of talk of integration and there were some schools opening up and there was a school Sacred Heart for Girls I applied and I was able to get in and I was just so delighted with that experience and what I learned and I was happy that I was able to integrate and be... And here's a strong word, an ambassador for my race.
I felt very good about that. I learned an interesting brand of Catholicism that was Italian and that was a wonderful experience, learning all the different interpretations of Christianity. When I went to the school, I wasn't tracked very high. I was in the lowest tracking, but I really had to prove myself and I really had to work very hard and I had to make all A's in order to be tracked with the highest college bound. I was with the college bound, but I wasn't with the highest college bound. That was when I learned about competition and from that point on anything segregated was not about skin color. Again, it was about capacity and how smart you were and that was a totally different and I'm in an all female environment as well. Oh my goodness, I really learned that there were so many more levels to this.
If you were just to simply get bogged down with one or two little things, you would miss the big picture. These women were progressive. They were nuns as well but they had not... They weren't the mission kind of nuns. They were very progressive. They wanted their females in the school to be... This is a Southern term, finished. This was a finishing school, when you left you knew what to do, you knew how to do it, you were very capable and the last few years we consolidated with the all boys school and with the school of colors. Bishop Derrick at the time, his vision was that I'm going to do a meltdown of all these silos of the Catholic schools in Memphis and we're just going to put everything together. It was a very bold move.
My last year there, I knew I had to grab a hold of something. I said, "Mm-hmm (affirmative), this is quite a shift here, quite a change." I became editor of the school paper because I said we need to make sure everyone has a voice and that was my method. I shared that with Robert Stewart, he was from the boys school so we had to have co-editors because we both had our own view of how things, but in the school's wisdom they said what we'll do is we'll just have co-editors and that was what I really thought my calling was going to be in the journalism area. But out of obedience, my mother said, "I want you to go into education." My total decision it's kind of like when they talk about arranged marriages, this was an arranged career.
David Reynolds: Well, you talked about a shift because of the blending of the previous silos and the Bishop's bold move to make a change like that. You made reference earlier to a shift that happened nationally, perhaps internationally, a ripple for sure, but a national shift when Dr. King was assassinated and you lived in the same neighborhood as you mentioned, just just miles from that site. What are your memories about that day?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: My most distinct memory is of course, just an overwhelming sadness and the secondary thought it may surprise you was one of embarrassment because my mother had friends in Dallas when Kennedy was shot, we all thought, oh my goodness, how embarrassed they would be for the city. Yes, it was a sadness but I was embarrassed that it was Memphis. That's a strange response, but first sadness then embarrassment and then a weird awe because the anger of the community began to rise and things were then set on fire. The haze as the sun was setting was orange. I shall never forget the sky being orange from the fires in the neighborhood. That's the impression that I have of that particular day, the phone call that we received. Now, interestingly, it didn't come from the news, I received it... Our home received an actual phone calls.
That kind of lets you know where we are in communications and how we change. We would've gotten our news off of the television but at that time, the television was just only turned on for special occasions and it was not something that stayed on all the time, computers, we didn't have those on. We received a phone call from my brother's girlfriend actually and she was crying and she said King had been shot. Again, that sequence of sadness and embarrassment and then the quiet, all looking at the sun set and the orange cast to the sky. Those are my memories.
David Reynolds: Out of that memory, out of that tragedy, what do you think are the most important lessons that emerged that should be emphasized and taught, especially in schools? If we open the Dr. Felicia Mayfield Education Center, what life lessons would you focus on to minimize the likelihood that such a hateful act would be repeated?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: I have to go back to the basics. I have to go back to the basics and the basics, democracy in this experiment called the United States where it's one person one vote and I'm not naive, I understand that those who crafted the original documents had something entirely different in mind. I'm not naive. My mother is turning 99 and she points out that the year she was born was the year that women were able to vote and own property. I'm not in a place where I am just thinking that democracy occurs without struggle. I'm not naive. I understand that perfectly. I get that.
I think we just push forward with learning the lessons of... And here's the key, there is a significant price that is paid when one's advancement is at the expense of the other. That's just a place of honesty where we all have to be, how much is the advancement of one person going to be expensive toward another person and that is why we call it a democracy. To mitigate that disparity, here we come with the nobility of the field of education. We need to get back to that original idea that teachers, educators are the individuals who make this experiment work and informed citizenry is what makes democracy work.
When you don't have information, you're just really going to falter because you'll default to your emotions and when your emotions override what is good for the big picture, then that's when we get into a selfishness and a haves and a have not and that's indeed what gives birth to civil wars all over the world. We see it every day, we just click on the news and one group says, "Hey, we're tired of being taken advantage of." The other side says, "Hey, but we're not giving up the power we have." I believe educators are in the middle to mitigate that struggle. Now that's a tall order, but that's where the leap to leadership comes in, where the leader must be the one who sees the big picture and sees how to mitigate and sees the commonalities and the mutual benefits of what we call democracy where one person gets one vote and we decide and we respect the vote that is cast. It sounds revolutionary, but it's exactly what we designed this country to do.
David Reynolds: Do you see a risk in forgetting or missing something as people get further and further from those pivotal events?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: I do see a risk. I do see a risk and I know that there's always been this notion of forgetting that's the whole story behind Deuteronomy, don't forget and that I have to revert to my faith-base context because forgetting is a part of the moving forward and having to relearn painful lessons. You see this with every child that you have even your grandchildren, they're going to still try to put their hand near the stove when it's still hot and they have to learn that themselves and it hurts us because I'm a grandmother and you go, my goodness, every generation has to learn some part of it.
But the good thing is that we have such amazing visuals now. It's not like we didn't have photography. At one point, we didn't have the rich photography. Everybody has a camera now. Everybody documents everything and yes, we know that visual images can be manipulated and changed. We understand all of that. But I am so appreciative that I have faith that we will continue to do well and learn because we have so many more learning opportunities than we ever had before.
We have so much more to take in and this is where my hope is and this is why I am so positive is that we're learning both sides of stories, we're learning them from the perception of both perpetrators and victims. If you listen carefully, the perpetrator is even the victim. It's so interesting that everyone is sharing their story now. I feel we're actually richer in understanding the human condition. I think we're richer than we ever have been. Our research is there. We have the stories. Everyone has a voice. I don't know anyone who doesn't have a voice now. Everybody has a voice even around the world when people emerge from the dark corners of oppression and slavery.
Do we have to fear the risk of forgetting? Yes. However, we understand the human condition and what oppression produces and what's people coming from that particular environment, what they have to say and we are very clear about what revolution looks like. We understand if an presser presses too hard and too harshly, that it will probably result in some kind of pushback. Everybody understands that now. I think because of the world stage, I think the human condition is understood clearly so the risk of forgetting, yes is there, but the exposure of human condition with social media is so graphic now. We can see executions on our computer screens. We can see revolutions. We can look at wars. We're just learning on a broader screen.
I'm going to have to borrow from another field and that would be agriculture where you harvest the best. I believe in the school that I would have, I would harvest the best of the gifts and I do believe that we all have certain gifts, but that we don't feel as though we can share them. That's one of the things that I believe if I were to have my own school, that I would be able to harvest the very best. Now, when we look at school safety and we look at female empowerment, some of these acting out behaviors that we see are because individuals do not feel as though their talents have been harvested. They do not feel as though they have been asked, what do they believe? They do not believe that what they believe matters and that kind of empowerment and plain old fashioned respect comes from not lip service, but actually the act of taking the best of what people have to offer and putting it to use.
I think that that is female empowerment. I think it's people empowerment. I want to be very careful because I don't want to do with the female empowerment thing. The same thing that has been done with other groups that get empowerment, you cannot abuse or exploit or you cannot use your power in a way that causes someone else to be deficient. That just is renaming and recycling the same old problem of one human being desiring to dominate another human being. It just is a waste of time and I think that the politically correct way to say it is it's counterproductive. Now, with that said, do we have to go through cycles? Yes, because we have had a history of women's needs not being met, do we need to go through a cycle till we all to a place of awareness? Yes. That's when I put them in the same category as the whole issue of school safety and all of that.
Now, are we listening to... This is a hard thing, are we listening and we studying the perpetrators? Are we paying attention to their needs? I'm hearing some common themes, I think they came out with Columbine, isolation not feeling they fit in. This political disenfranchisement of feeling like an outsider, an outcast. I hear mental health issues, but I also hear some social responsibility issues in there as well. Because all of my problems, and this is a strong statement that I'm going to make, all of my problems are solved inside of a faith-base context. I have to be patient with those who don't have that construct. I have to say, "Well, now how can I help to build an infrastructure that is analogous or parallel to my faith-base construct?" That's my challenge right now because I have a responsibility to share what works if you will.
But then I don't want to burden even a student, I'm in higher ed now, I don't want to burden them with trying to be a recruiter for my belief system. I want to take them where they are and to let them do some self-exploration and clarify what it is that they're seeking and what are the results of what you're seeking. I always say to them, now this is my belief system but I'm not trying to impose my belief system on you. But I do believe it's important that I set an example and that I do share.
David Reynolds: Sure. Because that provides someone with another perspective and to think about things in a way that they might not have done before. What should or could a teacher or an administrator do right now, regardless of the context that they operate in in their respective school or district, what can they do right now to make a difference for those that they serve, whether that's students or colleagues or even families or communities, but primarily students or colleagues. What can they do now?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Right now this is a wonderful time because we have so many examples of quality leadership. We're able to zero in on those who are doing a really great job. I was just looking at the national principal of the year is coming out of Gwinnett County and these are fabulous examples of individuals. Right now we are so rich in being able to tap into the traits, characteristics, practices, rituals and routines of successful leaders. It is not guesswork. We know exactly what goes into being successful and it's back to that it factor of having a large view of how your actions, the individual as leader impacts the larger community. Now I'm going to... This is a caveat and I've got to use an example that comes from sports and that's when a referee makes or an umpire makes a really bad call and the coaches, if they're respectful the referee or the umpire will give it back to them when they need it, that call.
I learned that in sports that you don't get upset. If you get upset, you won't get the call back. If you stay calm, the referee or the umpire will give you the call back. Especially if they realize they have made a bad call. Now, a leader will not make a perfect call every time and they have to be trusted to the point with so many experiences of trust. That's how you build trust, one experience after the other with your school community and indeed the community at large. One decision after the other, where people feel as though it wasn't taken from me or if I had to give something up, there was a reason and the principal or the leader took the time to explain why that was necessary.
Now, once that trust is built, even if the principal has to make a tough call that is unpopular, the community has enough faith and trust in the individual that he or she, they know that they're going to get it back just like a bad call with an umpire or referee. They're going to get it back. We'll make you whole but I need you to work with me through this particularly difficult situation right now and then I'll circle back around and I'll do something for you where you'll feel more comfortable. I'm going to point to those quality measures, which were the research based out of EDC and the Wallace Foundation, very powerful research work. If you want the call science behind it and the behaviors specifically that lead to success for leaders. I have those two things, those good examples and the Cole research.
But right now, if a principal or a leader does not understand systems theories and how one decision will impact down the line, if you can't see that, if you don't have that vision and I know we talk about vision all the time as having a projection of a desirable future, but vision to me also covers being able to see right now where you are and what is in the best interest of the people you're serving. Notice, I didn't say lead that time, I said serve, because if you don't have that under girding if you will of service then I'm not sure it doesn't come across to the people you're working with that you're in it for some reason other than to make life better for them. I think it just comes across very quickly. If it's leadership in a selfish way, which looks more like management or leadership in service which looks more like what are we going to do to make this better for all of us?
David Reynolds: Very recently, you said once you know better you are charged with the responsibility of leading. Once you know better, you are charged with the responsibility of leading. Is there anything you would like to expand on regarding that statement?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: The only thing I would say is that when you step out to lead, make sure... Or before you step out to lead, make sure you're healed. I see a lot of people who look for leadership to heal them in the places where they're broken and we need actually the opposite, we need for our leaders to come into the positions having been healed, reconciled, having no enemies, having no internal conflict, not being double mind. I would say that that personal care, if that is not intact it shows on your face. It shows in your countenance and it shows in your productivity.
It is a shame for you to have to work out your inadequacies on a stage of social media because everyone can see your inadequacies so it's good to just get a trusted friend or a great psychologist or a great spiritual counselor and say, "Listen, I'm having a hard time forgiving X or I had some injury in my childhood that I need to work through. I have some issues as an adult that I never did come to a place of peace." Once you step into the role leadership, you need to be in a place where you can divest up-self and invest in the people you serve.
If you have too much unforgiveness, if you have too much heartache, if you have not been reconciled, if you have any enemies and if you have pieces of yourself you're struggling with, that is not the time. Leaders need to be totally in a place of maturity and wholeness and wellness and we just really need our best leaders to have forgiven so that, that does not and it will rear it’s head in your service to others. That if you have any unforgiveness, if you have anger, if you have anything that has not been totally put to bed and at peace, then let's get that done now along with all the certifications and all of the...
That's one of the things we try to work on at Clark Atlanta University, if we see a disposition in an individual and they're in leadership or even in our teacher preparation, we say, "Let's talk. Let's talk about what's going on here." If it rises to the level of professional care, then we've been known to go with someone to get them help in that area. But to lead means that you're giving your best self and we really need to be healthy physically, emotionally and I believe spiritually in a place to give our very best and to leverage our energies in a way that makes the experience better and the environment better for the people we serve.
David Reynolds: One other thing that you said, you just mentioned Clark Atlanta again, what's about Clark Atlanta. You said that in addition to really nurturing learners and making the first generation college attendees feel at home, et cetera, was that Clark Atlanta serves and produces guardians of social justice. What did you mean by that? How do you actually accomplish that? How does that roll into a place of importance when these people move on to their respective roles when they leave you?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: What it looks like, that is actually in our... For the school of education, our conceptual framework, social justice and what it looks like is advocacy for those who need it. Now that could be in special ed fighting for adaptive materials for your student that could look like advocacy is when you're in a place where you can offer to an individual a piece of yourself or your expertise or any of your quote unquote power to help an individual reach their potential because we have modeled it and in all honesty, I have the backdrop of the mission. I never lost that, I still have that backdrop. Even though I don't share that with other people, my coworkers, they have had some experience where they saw someone do this. They know what that means to give selflessly and to model the behavior that will lead to this kind of kindness being perpetuated. We hope that when we set the example for our students, that they in turn will be able to provide advocacy for those they serve in the future and give voice to the voiceless.
David Reynolds: Who is your favorite teacher?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: I think the person most recently who has influenced me the most is the dearly departed Moses Norman who was our Dean. I had known him for so long. I really treasure his example of being a positive influence. He would insert himself into situations that would seem like they would be the most contentious, the most negative and he would just turn on the sunshine. He would turn the light on in some sort of way. I didn't agree with everything that he did or everything that he said, but he had a unique gift in being able to insert himself into a dark place and turning the light on.
That's what I grabbed from the late great Dr. Moses Norman and my mother always said, when you come to admire a person or in a situation and there's anything that you don't like, she said, you just do like watermelon. You just eat it and you spit out the seeds, so everything that I love about him, I really want to grab and as I said, there was some things, he was a man of his era and he definitely had some shortcomings in some particular areas. But overall, the lesson that I learned from him and I had known him since I was a teenager, was that you can insert yourself into a dark place and no matter how dark, and this is a phrase you would use, or how fragile the institution is, you can insert yourself into it and you can be a positive influence. I just remember that. It's a part of who I am and what I do.
David Reynolds: Is there anything that I should have asked you or that you want to share that we need to make sure we capture today?
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Well, I appreciate you. I appreciate the conversation and I appreciate the boldness of going inside of the consciousness of individuals who have been around for some time, 45 years is nothing to sneeze at and there've been ups and there've been downs and I've seen so much. I want what I have experienced to matter for someone else. I want for someone to be able to glean and I've listened to your other presenters and the nuggets that you grab are just so enriching. I don't know what I have said or what in my life can contribute to someone else, but I appreciate you providing a platform that would accommodate a breadth and depth of contributors to this field we call education and to just examine, what does it mean to lead? What does it mean to stand out? Because it does take courage and leadership is not something that is a popularity contest.
In fact, if everybody's going along with you, watch out something may not be right here because popularity does not equal leadership. If in the leadership, one has to sacrifice something then so be it. If we advance to another place, then it's good for all. I'm a master gardener and it amazes me how even when we turn over the dirt for a new crop in the... So we have a little garden in the back and I even do this with the flowers, how many benefits, I'm getting from the last harvest that was left. I got the seeds, the root system, I have so much there that creates growth for the next crops. That's what I'm appreciative of. I thank you for this opportunity to share and appreciate you so very much.
David Reynolds: I appreciate the sentiments. As you already know, I respect you very much in how you conduct business. You, to me are the quintessential professional. You said 45 years, so what's the next 45 hold? What's next for you professionally or personally or projects or plans or ideas, share whatever you'd like or not.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Everybody's into personal branding and I've done a couple of speeches on personal branding. My personal brand comes from Micah 6:8, do justly, love mercy, walk humbly. I am going to continue to do justly. I'm going to continue to love mercy and I'm going to continue to walk humbly. I would encourage everyone to get something that has meaning to you and a direction. That way the facticity of life won't disrupt what it is you believe in.
As I walk forward, I am believing that I don't know about retirement, that seems to just keep moving away from me. There always seems to be a project and I'm looking at all these new teachers and I'm going, oh my goodness, there's so much to learn and so much to teach. I'll try to capture some things in writing of course so that I can pass them on and that way and instead of the daily demands, hopefully I can get to a place where I can continue to share, but it won't be the physical demand of the day to day.
But right now it's day to day and I'm in there working with teacher education and leader ed whenever I can and Clark Atlanta also has a Counselor Education Department that is phenomenal with a mental health component in it. I have to put a plug in for my university and the great job that the school of education is doing under the leadership of our Dean, Dr. Fidel Turner and Associate Dean Barbara Hill, who in themselves they are accomplished educators. Right now the work is there and I'm just wanting to be a productive contributor for as long as I possibly can.
David Reynolds: Well, I'll make sure to put a link to Clark Atlanta's website in the show notes and just want to thank you Felicia for giving us a glimpse into your work and your world and for providing us with some very thought provoking material about relationships and learning and leading and what matters most in all those areas of life. Greatly appreciate that and I want you to just have a great day.
Dr. Felicia Mayfield: Thank you. You do as well.
David Reynolds: Thanks for listening today. Find the Lead. Learn. Change. podcast on your search engine, iTunes or other listening app. Leave a rating, write a review, subscribe and share with others. In the meantime, go lead, go learn, go make a change. Go.