Kristin Hatcher writes, and she inspires others to write. Kristin lifts lessons from daily events, challenges, victories, quiet reflections, others’ work, and life itself, helping her help others hone their craft and fulfill their dream to write a book. Kristin understands the connections between writing, learning, leading, and teaching, and her insights can support your desire to begin writing, stick with it, and make a difference for someone else along the way.
Show Notes
3:10 – the value of questions
3:20 – the portability of questions
3:40 – questions bring people together (questions can lead to community)
4:10 – ask yourself, “What’s one question I want to carry into the next twelve months?”
5:35 – does everyone have a story to tell?
6:35 – you have a story and there are many ways to convey it
7:30 – writing is a way of trying on ideas
8:35 – “Do I consider myself to be a teacher?”
9:30 – countless opportunities to learn
10:25 – some of the most profound learning occurs when teaching and learning (and those roles) are blurred
11:05 – from a small diary, to journaling, to blogs, to personal essays
12:25 – the definition of “published”
13:35 – “Am I a writer? Am I an author?”
14:10 – writing is a continual act of self-authorization
14:55 – Writing and its parallel to the question, “Are you a runner?”
16:40 – two options to get started on your writing journey
16:55 – another use for junk mail
17:55 – write with another person
18:40 – noticing the impulse to write
19:40 – ten minutes a day fits into real life
20:40 – accompaniment - someone walking alongside us, and vice-versa
21:35 – “None of us should be left alone with our bad writing.”
24:35 – reaching for goals in the great outdoors - pushing the limits
25:05 – Brainstorm Road – a structure to accomplish a Dream Project
26:40 – not necessarily (or only) becoming a writer, but becoming the kind of person who can write a book
27:45 – stories and questions, plus seeing the individual, are part of being a great teacher
28:20 – an art teacher who painted the cast on my arm
29:45 – my dad leading me through questions and stories
30:00 – Tommy and Teresa Turtle
31:20 – tremendous respect for teachers – thank you
32:00 – if you feel compelled to write, you can do it
https://www.instagram.com/kristin__hatcher/
Instagram - @kristin_hatcher
Speaker 1 (00:11):
What matters most in learning the challenge, the thrill, the benefits, interacting with other people or something else entirely. What is the connection between leading and learning? Does change drive learning or does learning drive change? What's more important, teaching or learning? Is everyone a leader, a learner, a teacher want answers? Listen in as we address these intriguing issues through commentary and with guests who share their thinking and tell us their stories. Lead, learn, change.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I don't think I've ever considered myself to be a teacher. It's a title which I hold with such respect, and I've always associated so much more with the idea of being a learner than a teacher. There's no need to go find a handwoven notebook or a beautiful fountain pen. There are no prerequisites. Grab a piece of junk mail that's come in and write some stuff on the back of it and let that be that. From that humble start, who knows what can come. You are a writer if you write. We don't necessarily need to make it more complicated than that. Do you enjoy writing? Great. Let's have a conversation about that.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Today's guest on Lead Learn Change is Kristen Hatcher. Kristen, thank you for taking your valuable time to speak with me today,
Speaker 2 (01:51):
David. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Kristen and I met in an online gathering of writers and writers to be, we didn't know each other at all at first, but a few interactions grew into a degree of understanding of how the other person might respond to a thought or idea. And I ended up following Kristen into a group called Writing in Community, which ended up being a huge catalyst for me to complete my first book, seasons of Life Ebb and Flow. And as that initial relationship concluded, in some ways it lingered as we shared occasional messages with one another. As a result, I've discovered that Christian is a wife, mother world traveler, 25 countries and counting triathlete and has earned a degree in public health. She's also pursued religious studies in biomedical ethics, which helps paint the picture of Kristen As an expert in thinking, writing, and in the power of questions, you seem to invest a significant amount of time thinking about questions when you read, you generate questions. When you posted prompts for us in writing in community, you post questions for us to consider more than just telling us something. What is it about teaching and learning that is so linked so strongly to the power of questions?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
David? David, it's a pleasure to be here and right to the heart of the matter with your first question. Thank you for that. I do love a good question, and I think for me, the power of a good question lies in its portability, right? It's something that we can take with us, it's something that we can chew on. It's something that we can carry across time and into different life circumstances and allow the question to sort of teach and reveal things to us in different moments. There's something about the portability of a question that I love. The other thing I love about questions is how they bring people together. So my assertion is that community is formed when there are people that are asking the same question together. So it's a way to invite people into a conversation and oftentimes questions our way into friendship as well.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
What questions should we ask ourselves to write our story or stories depending on how you look at it?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Oh, man, that's a great question. I don't know. I think it's individual and I think it depends on what's resonating at a given moment. I think one practice I have is oftentimes at the end of the year, as I think about the year ahead, I say, what's one question that I want to carry into the new year with me? What's a question that I want to ask across the coming 12 months? And they're often not premeditated. It's often I sort of sit down and write a bit and think about the year ahead and a question becomes obvious. I am not sure that I have prescribed questions that I would say, here are the three questions to answer, to understand the meaning and purpose of your life as much as being an observer of the thoughts that are flashing across our minds and the questions that are coming to mind and saying, I really am thinking about this a lot. What's the question here? And how could I be deliberate in giving it time and space to unfold?
Speaker 3 (05:01):
I'm glad you did not answer that because I was not seeking a prescribed response, which would've been horrible, I think. Of
Speaker 2 (05:07):
Course you weren't,
Speaker 3 (05:09):
And I think that the answer to the question is ask yourself what questions do I want answered? That's an interesting almost spiraling thought process, but it really does move all of it forward. I love the portability and now what question do I want answered? So how true is the statement? Everybody has a story to tell.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
I think that is a true statement, David, that's been my experience at least. What do you think?
Speaker 3 (05:37):
Absolutely. That's how every podcast guest has ended up on every podcast, anywhere
Speaker 2 (05:43):
In the history of podcasting and maybe even before
Speaker 3 (05:45):
That. And that's how conversations expand into relationships and friendships and sometimes lifelong relationships with people. Everybody starts off with sharing a little bit about themselves or what they're thinking or what they want to know about you, and there's this nice exchange that happens. So I believe everybody has a story to tell. The power of what you did in writing in community is you made it clear to everybody that they had a story to tell. I think everybody believes that everybody else does. Everybody else is interesting that everybody else has something that, oh, you should write your book, you should write that down. You flipped that around and made that about each person in the community and said, you have a story to tell.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think that's right. That's a really generous way to say that, and I might even push the bounds on that a little further and say, I would say, David, you don't just have a story. You have a set of life experiences, and there's many ways to tell us a story about the things that have happened and the things that you've seen and the things that are in your mind that you might imagine to be true. So I think it's both what has happened as well as thing that we feel drawn to say or write and put into the world.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
That last bit there really gets at the writing because if you have a story but it stays in your head, it's okay to only share that audibly with somebody, but there's something about writing it down, whether that's physical pen in hand, old school, or whether it's typing or dictation, you're capturing it. How do you think that writing process, how does writing support learning?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Writing is a way of trying on ideas. When I sit down and write each morning and just have a cheap composition notebook and a cheap pencil, it's really a way of getting things out of my head and onto paper. It's a way of saying, you know what? This happened and here's what I think is going on. And then looking at it and being like, oh wait, that wasn't it at all. Here it is. Or when I think about academic writing, it's a way of seeing how ideas fit together or how to form a perspective. So writing and learning go together at least one way of it is it's a way of trying on ideas and trying to find fit between what we observe and what we're learning and seeing in the world.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
Do you consider yourself a teacher in your role, in your various endeavors, like the Rod Gang community point, person spot? You never said, hi, I'm Kristen, I'm your teacher. You never said that, but undoubtedly, there's a lot of learning going on that would not have happened without that catalyst. So do you think of yourself that way?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Do you know? I don't know that teacher would be at the top of ways that I would describe myself. I don't think I've ever considered myself to be a teacher. It's a title which I hold with such respect, and I've always associated so much more with the idea of being a learner than a teacher. I'm not sure it's an identity I felt comfortable stepping into.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Have your beliefs about learning shifted over time as you've dipped into writing or have they remained steadfast and why on either one?
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Oh, man. I think what I think about learning, and I have not spent as much time thinking about learning as people like yourself and the people that are on this podcast and listening to it, but one thing that was really pivotal for me is shortly after I graduated from college, I took one of those personality tests and one of my top three strengths was that I was a learner. And that was hugely, hugely helpful because the shift that it unlocked for me was that if I just sort of framed any task or thing that I needed to do as an opportunity to learn something, I was much, much more energized about it. And it led me to sort of this belief that so much of life is learning if we approach it in that way. And while I love a classroom, I love homework, I love reading in the traditional way, we think about education, learning is so much broader, and I think it's the posture with which we approach the thing before us that makes it a learning opportunity or not.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
One of the rhetorical questions at the beginning of the podcast in the intro is, what's more important teaching or learning? Do you have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yes, I guess it's a both, and again, I'm not a professional at teaching or learning, but I think that some of the most profound learning experiences of my life is where the boundary between who's doing what is quite blurred and that the people involved in the exchange are both learning and teaching. That would be my hunch.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah. So that sounds like you really can't teach if you're not simultaneously learning. Is that accurate, you think? So pivot back to writing specifically now. Why or how or when did you start writing?
Speaker 2 (11:04):
Whoa, whoa. I think probably with a little diary that had a cartoon character on the front when I was young, and it had a gold blocking key, and I think it may even had the gold around the edges of the pages, and it's this very precious thing, and I had this very tiny key for it, which I'm sure I lost. And I don't know that I wrote a lot. I'm not even sure if I was able to write, but I remember that diary having it, and that was a very, very exciting thing. I don't remember writing a lot as a child beyond some journals here and there, but certainly in the post college years as blogs were becoming a thing, I had a trail of starts and stops and abandoned blogs and this idea that I had things I wanted to say, but I just didn't understand how they fit into where I was planning on heading and if they were worthwhile and why the heck it mattered that I had this inclination to write personal essays as a 22-year-old. It seemed a little ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
The definition of published has shifted a bit in the past 10 to 20 years with digital platforms that are accessible to virtually everybody, and we're likely in the midst of a new writing phenomenon with the acceleration of ai. Taking all of that into consideration, what does it mean to be a published author?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
I like this question. My definition is that you hit publish and there is a thing in the world that is your words and a result of your effort. I'm so much less interested in fitting things into a tight definitional box than I am in what compelled a person to put their words into the world. And I think there are a lot of different mechanisms for doing that, and some are more prestigious or traditional or whatever you want to call it, but I think that inclination to say, I wrote these things, this is what I can see from here, and I'm putting it somewhere that someone else can find. It is a really beautiful thing. And whether you call that published or publishing or whatever you want to call it, I say bravo to the person that was brave enough to do it.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
That makes me think that maybe the more appropriate term or synonym is once you've shared your writing, you're a published author and maybe people shouldn't agonize over that adjective in front of the word writer or author and just say, I'm a writer or I'm an author. And then if pressed and people say, well, what have you published? Have you written a book? Then you can say, I have written a number of things. Would you like to see some of it? I'm happy to share some. Maybe that's the way to get over this.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I think that's right. We get so stuck with the titles. I want to say I am a writer. I am an author when I think those are just a way of saying, am I legitimate yet? And there's this quote that I love that writing is a perpetual act of self authorization, meaning that until you decide that you are the writer, nobody's going to be able to come from outside and say, David, now you are legitimate. Go forth and write legitimate words. That always has to be done by you. You always have to be the one that's authorizing yourself to do the work. So sure you can find a publisher and get on a New York Times bestseller list, and you will be a no kidding author, and that's really, really cool, but it's certainly not the only pathway to doing the thing that you want to do.
(14:47):
And I think the other notion around that sort of question of, am I a writer? Am I an author? I compare it to running. And when I first started running, people would say, are you a runner? And I would have this crisis of identity, like, am I a runner? I go running sometimes, but I never done a marathon. So then I did a 10 K and I did a half marathon, and I said, I'm not your runner yet. I don't know. Am I a runner? And then somebody told me that you're a jogger if you run slower than 10 minutes a mile, but if you run faster than 10 minutes a mile, you're a runner. So I said, okay, maybe I will be a runner if I just get a little bit faster, and then you're a runner if you do a marathon. So they did all of those things and then people would say, are you a runner?
(15:29):
And by that point, I've been running long enough that I was like, well, yeah, I run. The question is irrelevant. I think what people want to know is how do you enjoy spending your time? Most people weren't trying to sort of parse my experience and see if I was legit or not. They were just wondering if I'd like to go for a run with them. And I think it's similar with writing. You are a writer if you write. We don't necessarily need to make it more complicated than that. Do you enjoy writing? Great. Let's have a conversation about that.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, don't worry about the gatekeepers and the traditional definitions of things. So if a listener wants to write, what would you tell them? Because I immediately think of the things I learned from you about overcoming resistance doubt, which you just described with the runner's thoughts in your head, others' reactions, perfectionism, and your statement that you made where you once said, new things don't always go according to plan and almost never go according to expectations. I thought that was really rich. There's a whole lot in that question, I know. But this was about what would you tell someone who wants to write, thinking about all that as the backdrop?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
I would say two things, two potential options for getting started. One would be to copy what my friend Libby did, my friend Libby, and you may have run into Libby at some point, David, she wrote poetry. She was a new mom and wrote poetry on the back of torn envelopes. She literally got junk mail in the mail, ripped the envelopes in half, and would just create a stack of envelopes on the kitchen counter and on a nightstand around the house in various places. And as she thought of lines of poetry and ideas for poems, she would just jot them down on these scrap pieces of paper and did that over time in the midst of real life, in the midst of having a baby in the pandemic. And we crossed paths as those poems were being made into a book. And what I love about that is one that there's nothing precious about it, right?
(17:30):
There's no need to go find a hand woven notebook or a beautiful fountain pen. There are no prerequisites. Grab a piece of junk mail that's come in and write some stuff on the back of it and let that be that. There's no need to be precious about it. And from that humble start, who knows what can come. And then maybe the second piece would be grab a friend that might also want to write and go get a cup of coffee together and set a timer for 10 minutes and write together for a cup of coffee and then have a conversation about how it went.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
I'm hearing when you have the thought, capture it somewhere, tell it to somebody or write it down and you can organize and think about it again and redo later, but you need to capture it. You're touching on the idea of there's great value in getting started and taking initiative and committing to a practice. Just expand on that. I know you find those things really important.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I do find those things important. And I would say it's capturing the thought when it crosses your mind, but perhaps even more importantly, it's capturing the impulse. It's noticing the impulse. What am I feeling compelled to do as I move through the day? I think sometimes we approach writing with this. There's this story inside that I must tell, and it's going to take years to write this book. I wonder what happens when we do the opposite, when we're lacing up our shoes and think, oh, I'd love to write this sentence down. Or when we're going for a run and a string of words pops into our mind or a memory from childhood as we're cooking dinner. And you think, what if I wrote that down? Just that tiny impulse that sort of compels us towards a thing that we just simply like to do. It doesn't have to be this grand plan.
(19:26):
It doesn't have to be linear. And David, like you said, this idea of a practice of paying attention to feeling compelled to do a thing, to carving out just a teeny, teeny bit of space in the midst of everyday life to do a thing that we care about, I think is really, really powerful. So I like to say 10 minutes a day, 10 minutes a day fits in the midst of real life. Real life being a day job and some caregiving, a dentist appointment, a flat tire. There's still usually time for 10 minutes. And so I think it can be really, really powerful when we approach our days with just a tiny bit of time and space for the things that we care about. And for me, that thing is writing.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
You talked just a moment ago about a second way to get started was to find another person and talk about it even if you're not writing together. And that is just the on-ramp into the whole sense of writing in community. So Kristen, we'd be really remiss not to talk about writing in community, not necessarily as the official structure, but you once said, I think you said this to me in a previous call, we all need somebody to walk alongside us. That sounds like a huge part of this writing and community concept. Can you make what I said better?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Oh my gosh. No, no. I think you've said it. I think, gosh, where to begin on this one. This is the heart of it for me. So I have been really influenced and inspired by the notion of accompaniment, which is a notion that has roots in liberation theology and oversimplification would be the sense of what you just said, which is that at some point in each of our lives, we need someone to walk alongside of us. And so I've spent most of my career in public health and working in global health and thinking about how to increase access to healthcare. And I think that this notion of accompaniment is one of the most powerful tools that we have to achieving those ends. And I think the same in our creative pursuits. I think I have this thing that I say a little bit tongue in cheek, which is that I believe that none of us should be left alone with our bad riding.
(21:39):
And that's because it's really easy to get sucked into, oh my, I've just written the worst sentence in the history of the English language. And it's really easy to stay stuck there unless you're writing with other people who will fight you for that title because they too are convinced that they have written at some point the worst sentence of the human language. And when you can have that exchange, what happens is soon you're laughing and joking about who's written the worst sentence, and you can get back to work, and you don't have to stay paralyzed by this fear that perhaps you really, truly are worse at this than anybody ever has been. And that's sort of what we do for one another. When we write with other folks that are trying to do the same thing, we realize that it's not that I am uniquely flawed, it's just that these are table stakes for trying to put words around things we care about. It's not easy, but it's worthwhile.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
There's a lot of benefit to sharing your worst work and your worst ideas as opposed to always trying to have a really nice piece that meets some arbitrary standard that sometimes is just imagined. And when both people say, here's what I created, I need help with this, it just levels the playing field and there's no posturing and there's no pretense. It's just, let's make this better, or what do you think? And let it inform your next step. So I think that's really a good way to look at the accompaniment piece. When you were talking about that. I also thought about music. I have no musical talent at all,
Speaker 2 (23:13):
Neither
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Do I, but I know that musical accompaniment is a thing.
(23:18):
So I think that writing done well is kind of musical when you see a nicely framed thought or a really great string of word selection or recurring theme that is just full of really sharp humor. It's kind of got a pattern or a rhythm to it, and you sort of expect it in the next chapter on the next page or the next blog or whatever. So I think the word accompaniment is maybe more fitting even than community because it can be one person or more. And community sort of has the connotation of a whole lot of people, and accompaniment is a little bit more individualized.
(23:57):
Your Instagram account includes a lot of thoughtful metaphors, a lot of 'em related to running some to busyness with a Y, not an I, and to climb up, I think it was called the Diving Board at Yosemite. That was a great post. And it's at Kristen Hatcher, and I'll put that link in the show notes and then your newest focus, and you can go back to the diving board thing. I saw your face on that one, but your newest focus is with this project called Brainstorm Road. So I do want to hear about that. You can back up and touch the Yosemite thing if you want, or just go forward with the brainstorm road piece.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
Oh, I chuckle about the diving board because I have a bad habit of getting my husband and I into circumstances just barely at the edge of our capabilities in the great outdoors. And this hike to the diving board in Yosemite was one of my more ridiculous ideas, but it ended up being completely lovely, but it's just another way of playing with edges and seeing what's possible in the midst of life. So I'll leave that one there.
Speaker 3 (25:06):
Brainstorm Road is about seeing what's possible.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
Exactly, exactly. So Brainstorm Road is a project I've been working on with Margo Aaron for the last, just about a year. We've had our first cohort of a couple hundred people move through, and the premise is really, really simple. It's if a person is able to commit to doing about 10 minutes of work a day on a project they care about, we call 'em dream projects, what happens over the course of six months? What happens when they try to do that with other folks that are headed in the same direction? And we are very insistent that this is dream projects happening in real life because unfortunately, I have yet to find the cabin in the woods for six months to post up and do nothing but sort of stare at the sunrise and sunset and write beautiful, flowing prose. That hasn't happened for me yet, and I don't think it's going to happen in the next few years or decades.
(26:03):
So what's the alternative? And it is very unglamorous, but very possible, and that's just spending a teeny bit of time every day doing something that we care about. And it's been really, really extraordinary to watch what happens. The outcomes are really cool. People are publishing books and launching new pieces of business and working on ideas that are unique and fantastic, but the thing that I'm increasingly fascinated by is both the outcome and getting where we're going, but also what happens to us along the way. And I think it's really powerful when we do work, we care about because we show up in the world differently. I think the secret of writing in community, and I think there's something similar happening at Brainstorm Road, is we lured people in with this idea of you'd like to write a book, but the more interesting thing that happened was that people became the sort of people that could write books. It wasn't about a single idea as much as a chance to look at ourselves and how we approach creative work and how we commit to doing the stuff that lights us up. And then getting to stand back and look at how life looks different now as a result, not at some future point that may or may not ever be actualized.
Speaker 3 (27:23):
You've been influenced by different people in recent years, and going further back, I'm sure, as mentors and teachers, as you think about those people, what are the characteristics that you see as common to the ones that you would say, these are the greatest teachers I've had? What makes a great teacher
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Stories and questions, I think, and the ability to see the human first. So I was listening to some of your previous episodes and thinking about teachers. I had so many really, really good teachers growing up, and I was trying to think what made them great. Why do I remember the teachers that I remember? And many of the anecdotes were just because I felt seen as a human and more than a student. I had a high school art teacher my senior year. I broke my arm and I had to miss a lot of my senior season of softball, and that was really, really important to me, and I was pretty heartbroken about it. And my art teacher painted my cast. He painted a scene that was sort of like starry night on this cast on my arm, and it almost, I feel myself welling up thinking about it now because what a human beautiful gesture.
(28:45):
I'm sure in his life he had much more important stuff going on than missing some softball games. But to me, that was a really, really big deal. And I think his ability to use his gift and his medium for teaching to meet me where I was, that was extraordinary. That was a big part of it. I think in college, I had some really extraordinary professors that were willing to do a bit of a zag away from a syllabus. My college advisor actually is a man named Jim Childress, who's just an extraordinary thinker. And I had this summer experience abroad, and we got back to school, and I was telling him about it outside of a classroom, and he just looked at me. He said, I think you've got a lot to say about this. Let's do an independent study and you figure out what you need to read, and then you need to write about this.
(29:32):
And for a semester, I just would write things and deliver them to his office and we would talk about them. And yeah, I think that ability to see a human and kind of help them get where they're going in terms of education has been extraordinary. Then I guess the last one would be, I think about my dad who has this really terribly irritating, effective way of interacting with me, which is very rarely telling me what to do and very frequently asking me questions and telling me stories. And growing up, he would tell us stories about two imaginary turtles named Tommy and Theresa Turtle, and it just so happened David, Tommy and Theresa were always experiencing the same things as my brother and I, but it was just the stories about these two turtles, and we still joke about it today, but that ability to tell a story that makes you think and makes you ask questions, those are the things that have been pretty transformative and extraordinary as I have learned or tried to learn things.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Have you and your brother ever signed a card to your dad, Tommy and Theresa?
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Do you know? I don't think we have, but I have gotten notes from Tommy, and actually I have little turtles around on my desk and on my dresser because it makes me think of those stories and lessons that I learned and questions that I carry.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
You can always ask a million questions, so you have to stop at some point. I don't ever want to do that without saying. Is there anything else that you'd like to share at all? Anything about writing or teaching or learning or processes?
Speaker 2 (31:13):
No, I, I've loved this conversation. I think I have just an extraordinary amount of respect for teachers, especially I think of grade school teachers, and again, I had many that were really, really extraordinary. And I guess one thing to say is just a thank you to the people that listen to this podcast and that spend their days teaching. It's powerful, and I imagine it's extraordinarily difficult. I was a substitute teacher, I think only for two days when I was in my twenties, and I don't know, it was quite something. So I have just the utmost amount of respect for educators, so really a big thank you to folks that do that. And I think on the writing front, the only thing I would say is that if you feel compelled to do it, you can do it. There doesn't have to be an end point. There doesn't have to be a standard of goodness. It can be as simple as jotting some stuff down because you'd like to, and then maybe show it to David because he'd probably like to see it.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
I would actually, and we're actually thinking about doing some crowdsourced projects with content created by teachers for teachers with some prompts that we could organize and give to teachers and post some chapters, hear it directly from current real practitioners that you might even be able to contact and talk to them about it. That's on the horizon for something we're trying to do inside the organization. With that, let me thank you very, very much Christian, for just giving us a glimpse into your world of writing and for sharing your thinking. It's really, really appreciated.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
Oh, it's my pleasure, David, thank you so much for asking great questions. I love chatting with you.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Thanks for listening today. Find the Lead Learn Change podcast on your search engine, iTunes or other listening app. Leave a rating, write a review, subscribe and share with others. In the meantime, go lead. Go learn, go make a change. Go.