Listen in on a phone conversation with Hannah Talley, a mom, wife, veteran public school educator, teacher, media specialist, and a true lifelong learner. Hannah shares her thoughts on what leads to learning–and what stifles it–and addresses the importance of adjusting to changes in technology and shifts in students' needs. She challenges us to embrace new opportunities for learning and to engage in self-reflection in order to maximize learning for ourselves and for others.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
What matters most in learning the challenge, the thrill, the benefits, interacting with other people or something else entirely. What is the connection between leading and learning? Does change drive learning or does learning drive change? What's more important, teaching or learning? Is everyone a leader, a learner, a teacher want answers? Listen in as we address these intriguing issues through commentary and with guests who share their thinking and tell us their stories. Lead, learn, change.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I used to think that I needed to know all the answers. I thought silence equaled learning. It's wide open now. It is totally different. I want to be better today than I was yesterday, so there's that constant self-reflection.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I am your host, David Reynolds, with another episode of Lead Learn Change, the podcast that unlocks the keys to meaningful learning and examines the connections between leadership change and memorable learning experiences. Let's get started. Today we hear from Hannah Talley, a public school educator serving as a media specialist at City Park Elementary in Dalton, Georgia. Hannah will be sharing her wisdom with us beginning by telling us who influences her life the most.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
My family and my friends happen to be colleagues from work, so I guess, and from church, I just see my life as being interconnected. So
Speaker 3 (01:44):
What led you to pursue this career in public school?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
It kind of goes back to my family, the way I was raised. My dad saw the value of education. He had to quit high school, but he became a very successful businessman in the seventies and eighties, just from his own grit and determination and invested wisely and was a very smart man. I'm very wise, but not educated, so I don't often think the two have to go hand in hand, education and intelligence and wisdom. But he wanted my sister and me to have the experiences and opportunities that he didn't get to have. So education was huge and not going to college was never an option. My mom had an associate's degree in nursing, but chose not to work once. She started a family because she wanted to be a stay at home mom, but she had the heart of gold, the service heart that I just saw how she helped other people.
(02:43):
So I knew I wanted to do something to help people and then I was blessed to go through the Whitfield County school system where I had not one teacher that was anything less than top-notch, just awesome teachers and the school experience, and so I school. So it was almost like I became a teacher by default, but I had a heart for it anyway. I love to learn. I love school life, and I just never wanted to not be part of school life. When I was in college, I got to work with adult. They were English, a second language learners. So at 18 and 19 years old, I was teaching a class and I fell in love with just getting to know people from different countries and cultures and they became some of my dearest friends, and so it's really the only world I know.
Speaker 3 (03:29):
So think back on those learning experiences you've had. Just think about a time when the learning was really meaningful and talk about that for a bit.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Becoming a parent has been the most meaningful learning. You can study child development, you can study education and all of those teacher ed programs, but until you truly live side by side with a child and watch them go through the learning process, I don't think you can truly understand it. I have become so much more tolerant and open-minded since I've had my own child. I've learned that there's some things you simply cannot control and you have to change your mindset. I used to think I was flexible, but I didn't know what flexibility was. Becoming a parent really has mellowed me out in my approach to how I interact with kids. Now. If I'm talking to a student and I'm looking that student in the eye the whole time, I'm thinking, how do I want my child's teacher talking to this child? It's tenderized me.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
So parenting has been one of the greatest learning experiences. What would be a flip of that scenario? A frustrating, burning experience?
Speaker 2 (04:35):
I'm actually going through a pretty frustrating time right now. We're dealing with a lot of students from trauma situations. Our population has changed drastically. So many students just are coming to extreme poverty, not necessarily poverty of income, but poverty of family life, social, emotional needs. For the first time in my 20 year career, I'm struggling with classroom management because we have a whole different style of learner coming to us, knowing how to connect with and lead today's children and just some of the social issues. It's been pretty difficult.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
So between the two stories that you just shared or across those two stories, what would you list from those examples of parenting and managing the significant and extreme needs of large numbers of others? What matters the most to you then when you're going through a learning experience?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I'm looking for a relationship with whomever I'm learning from. I want to be treated with kindness unnecessarily. It doesn't matter to me how intelligent, smart, professional a person is. I want 'em to be kind to me. I want them to provide positive feedback. I also want critical feedback. I want to be able to grow, but I want it done in a humane kind way. I want communication expectations. I want them to tell me upfront, here's what I expect. Give me a little freedom to figure out on my own so that I do learn from the situation, but be there for guidance if needed and just a connection really. It's all about the relationship.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
To what extent do you think that those things that appeal to you and the way that you learn best match up with what's important to other people's preferences? Do you think that your criteria about what's most important in learning would parallel other people's criteria?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I think so because a lot of the students that are coming to us right now, they literally need step-by-step instruction on everything from behavior management to how to conduct themselves in a social setting, how to have a conversation, and like I said, I go back to how I talk to my own child.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
So if somebody says, I believe everyone's a learner and everyone's a teacher, what insights would you add to that agreement, disagreement or expansion on that?
Speaker 2 (06:57):
I think we learn every day. Everything is DIY. Now we watch tv, we watch YouTube, we watch, we even look at other people now, makeup classes, hairstyle classes. You can go to Home Depot and take a workshop. It's everywhere. So yes, I think everybody can be learning. I think opportunities are there and I think people have to learn every day. I mean, things are changing so quickly. Even some of those entry level jobs. Now, if you're a cashier or you work at a fast food restaurant, it's all technology based now, so you got to be able to pick up new things, and I've seen people in all ages of life learn. My grandmother's 89 years old and she's learned how to use Facebook. She's learned how to use a tablet in her lifetime. Who would've thought that? She might have needed to know some Spanish words based on where she grew up, but she understands a little bit of Spanish. Now I just see learning taking place all over the place.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Pick out a time or two when you were responsible for helping somebody else learn something that really mattered to them. What stands out about those types of interactions?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
What I'm discovering now is everything is point of need. We used to have trainings after school or during someone's planning period, like, oh, let's all come and learn this software, and we'd have 30 people in a workshop and we would train them and then they'd all leave and maybe one or two people would go out and actually try the tool. What I'm finding now is I'm trying to meet people at the point that they need something. The other day I had a teacher come in, they didn't know how to create a zip file. Her first thought was to be embarrassed because she felt like it was something she should already know how to do. She needed that skill. At that moment when she left, she was smiling, she was relieved. It took 30 seconds. We didn't have to write a dissertation. I literally knew how to do something. I showed it to her, it met her need, and she walked away feeling successful. Things are changing so fast now that we can't all know everything there is to know, but if you're at least learning something, then you're okay.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
How do you figure when you're in a position to help others learn what makes the experience meaningful or memorable for them? Do you know what the need is? How do you know what's going to work?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I do have a good example. My third grade teachers, I gave them a survey and asked them what tech tools they would be interested in learning about and some hard to teach concepts that they needed help with to make more engaging to students. I asked them to identify a unit and some standards that were hard to teach and where they needed help. Then I also surveyed the kids and asked them, what are some projects that you would like to be able to create using some technology tools? And I've compared the data and figured out that the kids wanted to create comic strips. They wanted to use some pretty cool websites like Piston, and the teachers identified government as being the hard to teach concept. So we merged all that into a unit where they created some comic books about a government topic. So that was pretty cool. I can't, unfortunately, because of the time required, do that with every teacher and grade level in class. So I just have to do a lot of informal assessment constantly. What are the kids into right now? Try to use all those opportunities where I'm out and about in the school to figure out what's going to interest the student.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
If you've interacted with people who've had what seems to be one of those greatest learning experiences ever, how do you know that and what's the evidence that, wow, that really works for that person?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Well, they take it and they start using it in their everyday life. I mean, like my grandmother, I gave the Facebook example. She's on it all the time. You can't get her off of it. Teachers here and they'll rave about it. They'll share it with somebody else. And sometimes I get, I guess almost like a testimonial from other teachers, word of mouth. Somebody will come in and say, I was talking to so-and-so and they said, you showed them how to use book creator. Do you care? Show me how to use a book creator. So when they go out and they teach somebody else, they're using it. It's almost that each one teach one kind of thing
Speaker 3 (10:55):
Back to your first semester or two as an undergrad. And then fast forward to now and see if you can identify what some of the contrasts were and how you used to think about living and how you think about it now.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
I used to think that the teacher was the keeper of knowledge. I mean the whole sage on the stage. I thought I needed to know all the answers. I thought I needed to know all the content. My job was to stand at the front, deliver it. I thought my role was exclusively classroom management. I thought silence equaled learning, and that is totally changed. Now you walk in my media center, it is not a quiet place. Kids are up, they're moving, they're talking to each other. They're behind my desk. They're using my computer. We're just equal partners now, and I feel like I'm that guide on the side. Now I create conditions for them to discover their own answers. I'm here as the adult with a little bit of wisdom and experience. Yeah, it's wide open. Now,
Speaker 3 (12:00):
What were the things that happened that made that shift happen?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
I was fortunate. In my second year of teaching, I worked with a principal where we became affiliated with Phil Schlei, and I read the working on the workbook. I was part of the process where we started looking at student work and what it revealed about student learning and engagement. And I can honestly say that Phil Schlei and his philosophies changed my thinking. And then the leaders that I was surrounded by during that time period in my career, they lived it. They walked the walk and they taught the talk. I was part of a leadership academy where I read a lot of professional books and I learned a lot about what leadership really was. I thought I knew what leadership was. I used to equate leadership with just being a boss, but I learned it so much more. So really just the whole thought behind student and staff engagement really is what changed my thinking.
(12:59):
There was something else that happened in my teaching career. I was a classroom teacher and I had gone with my church's youth group to amp and I was struggling those first few years. I wanted to be professional. I wanted to command the respect of the kids that I was teaching. I had read all the first years of school, here's what you do. You can't be their friend. Don't smile. Before Christmas, I was working out still, who was I going to be as the leader in the classroom? I was trying to figure out my leadership style, my demeanor. So I went to this youth camp and there was a praise and worship leader there. His name was Jeff Lauder. The way he interacted with the kids at the youth group, the way he taught, he was unfiltered. His joy, his passion, he just let himself shine and the kids were just drawn to him like a magnet and he could teach them things. And I came back to my classroom the next year and I let down all those guards. I still maintained that professional demeanor, but I just let myself be me in front of my students and in front of my colleagues. I wasn't reserved. I didn't hold anything back. Teaching was fun, and I loved the way that I connected with my kids after that. So just seeing him and the way he conducted himself really made an impact on me.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Just flip one more time and think about obstacles to learning. What is it that keeps learning from taking place when it doesn't happen? Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Compliance. Because bureaucracy being locked into things like schedules and bas ringing and Oh, we can't do this because so-and-so has to serve a student for this segment of time. But then they have to leave this classroom and, oh no, we can't continue what we're doing because the bell's going to ring and it's time for lunch. And if I'm late for lunch, then it backs up. The cafeteria school kind of interferes on learning. God, can I say that?
Speaker 3 (15:00):
You don't want me to edit that out, then I'm more than happy to leave it in there. Oh no, don't get in trouble. Mark Flynn said that before you did Hannah, so I think you're safe. I mean, he said, I've made it a habit to never let school interfere with my education.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Oh, okay, good. And if I'm not as smart as Mark Twain, you can leave me. You can leave. No, it's zero. It would be any place.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Yeah, the institution of school set that now with the constraints that you just described, so Sure. So do I get to leave that in or do I need to edit that?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Yeah, that's fine. Leave it in. I'm bold.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
Okay. Alright. Confident. I'll probably in this part about leaving it in, which is kind of entertaining. So what's more important? Teaching and learning.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
If you learn something and then you truly learn it at a deep level and you can teach it to someone else, that's evidence that you truly learned it, but you got to learn it before you can teach it. If you want to learn something new and you've got the resources there, I've learned so much. I don't have to have a teacher to go learn something now I can get on my computer, learn anything I want to learn.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Do you mean like your DIY?
Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 3 (16:18):
So are those people teachers? Yes,
Speaker 2 (16:20):
But I also spend a lot of time inside my own head and learn about myself because I want to be better today than I was yesterday. So there's that constant self-reflection where I become my own teacher. I think learning is more important and you show you learn something when you're able to teach it to somebody. I just think that desire to learn is the most important.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Tell me about the person from whom you've learned the most.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
I've learned from so many people. I mean, I have so many positive influences in my life. I got to go first with my religious beliefs and Jesus, the things that he taught. And then of course my family. I mean my dad, I learned so much from him. Work ethic and dependability and things like that. And I got all that from my dad. But like I said, from my mom, I got her heart. I think because anybody that walks into a room, she can make them feel at ease and special. And that's what I always want, make my kids that I interact with and my teachers, anybody that I'm teaching, I want 'em to feel like that. And I've learned a lot of content knowledge from teachers over the years and I was blessed with, I'm going to cry. I had a great mentor teacher, Gretchen Abernathy as a student teacher, I always tell her that she set the tone for my career.
(17:35):
If I hadn't have been in her classroom, I don't know what kind of teacher I would've become because she taught me everything about being a professional, not even about just teaching, but just how to conduct yourself once you've gone from being a student to a professional. And then I got to City Park and Rick and Sandy showed me what true leaders were and I had people like March to lot. And then my child, I mean, I've learned so much from him, so I have a long list. I'm open to learning from all kinds of people. I like having my thinking stretched because it's been a while since I've engaged in conversation like this. I think it's great for people to have to stop, revisit, why are you doing what you're doing? This was powerful for me today. Some things that I just take for granted and I haven't thought to be thankful for. So I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Awesome. That's a great win-win. For sure. I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Well, thank you. I was glad to do it. Thanks and have a great one. Alright, you too.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
That concludes today's podcast. Thanks to Tim White, master sound engineer who magically saved the audio quality of this, our first will episode. Use your favorite podcast app to subscribe and feel free to email me at Lead Learn change@icloud.com to share your comments and ideas. Music for lead learn change is sweet adrenaline by delicate beats. Thanks for listening. Until next time, go Lead. Go learn. Go make a change. Go.