Political consultant and public school graduate Vlada Galan shares her perspective on working hard, beating the odds, and serving as a catalyst for significant change. The story of Vlada’s world provides a glimpse into the complex array of components that comprise an election campaign and highlights the incredible value of education–and of the great teachers who support learning in highly meaningful ways.
Guiding campaign teams to victory (2:55)
First female vice-president (5:50)
A world traveler (7:00)
Life’s pivot points (8:15)
Influential leaders (11:05)
Immersive learning (14:20)
The benefits of a public school education (16:00)
The gift of a different perspective (19:00)
Whose vision? (20:40)
Teaching and learning embedded in one’s work (22:40)
Success, contentment, freedom, and happiness (25:15)
Making change happen (27:15)
Selfless educators make a huge difference in lives (30:55)
A favorite quotation (32:30)
First female member of the firm and the youngest staff member (34:45)
What next? (36:40)
David Reynolds:
What matters most in learning, the challenge? The thrill? The benefits? Interacting with other people? Or something else entirely? What is the connection between leading and learning? Does change drive learning, or does learning drive change? What's more important, teaching or learning? Is everyone a leader, a learner, a teacher? Want answers? Listen in, as we address these intriguing issues through commentary and with guests who share their thinking, and tell us their stories. Lead. Learn. Change.
Vlada Galan:
The next milestone that was a huge pivotal point was going from private school to public school. Public school opens your eyes to the world. There really is an amazing zone for opportunity, where you have to make real decisions that you have to be accountable for at that age. In Columbia, we were able to elect the first female vice president in the history of the country. We can all be the catalyst for change. A young volunteer knocking on doors in Georgia could end up leading elections. It is unbelievable to think how many educators in my life have had an impact on me.
David Reynolds:
I'm your host, David Reynolds, with another episode of Lead. Learn. Change. Today's guest is Vlada Galan. Vlada is the daughter of Anjelica Riano, our guest for episodes two and three. Vlada's story is also one of incredible success, breaking glass ceilings, crafting campaign strategy for elected officials in the U.S., and for president and prime minister candidates globally.
David Reynolds:
Vlada formed her own consulting firm early in her career. And now, during her frequent travels, speaks on public affairs and international politics. I caught up with Vlada while she was stateside for a brief visit.
David Reynolds:
Vlada, welcome to the podcast. And, thank you for taking your valuable time to speak with me today.
Vlada Galan:
Thank you, David. It's truly a pleasure to be on.
David Reynolds:
A few weeks back, you were gracious enough to stop for a cup of coffee on your way north from Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport in Atlanta, and now that we've caught up with you after a stateside visit, following the trip that included visits to Israel, Ukraine and Kazakhstan. During that trip you worked on a presidential election. What can you tell us about that undertaking?
Vlada Galan:
Truly, I have such an amazing opportunity in life. I'm a political consultant and I basically get hired on campaigns to globally set political strategy and pave the way for a winning path for candidates. This includes advising, conducting polling, setting strategy, PR, branding, and managing on local teams, crisis communication. And, it's truly an amazing experience to be able to come into a new country, and to help a local campaign team guide a path to victory. There're certain countries that I certainly can't talk because of confidentiality reasons in details about, but just being able to have the opportunity to come in and advise a sitting leader, or an opposition leader who's running, to get to set that structure from top to bottom, to lead, to guide. And also often, I learn a lot of things along the way, so it's something that I absolutely love and enjoy.
David Reynolds:
During our chat, after your return home, a few weeks back, you did share a commercial that had just been edited and released in one of the countries you visited, where there was a successful election campaign. And, can you talk a little bit about the work that happens after you leave a place? Because, we talked about how similar some of the strands or messaging pieces were inside that ad, to the political ads that we see here in the States.
Vlada Galan:
Everybody likes to think that at the end of the day, that we are all so very different across the world. And, the truth is that people come out to vote for very, very similar reasons. We all care about having a better job. We all care about being able to put food on the table for our family. There is a very common human thread, and we see the same thing here in the United States right now. People want good jobs, people want a strong economy. And, the threads are not so different. Often, after we leave after an election process, their work continues. And hopefully, during the process, we've been able to pass along some of our know-how, and give a bit more of a western perspective to the situation. But at the end of the day, like I said, we like to think we're so different, but this is what drives people, hope, change, desire for a bright future, and a vision for our country. This is why people vote around the world. So, even after we leave, we're able to leave some of that know-how and some of that vision. And often, we stay on projects long after the election is done and continue to advise, continue to help with U.S. relations. It's an ongoing process.
David Reynolds:
You were recently involved in Columbia. And, if you're able to talk about that, there were some first ever aspects of that election with a candidate in a way that no other candidate had done in that country before. Can you share anything about that experience with us?
Vlada Galan:
Yes, David, I absolutely can. In Columbia, we were able to elect the first female vice president in history of the country. And, for me as a woman, and as a younger woman in this vicious political world, it was an amazing opportunity to see what kind of change and a catalyst for change can be created. She was an amazing candidate, and is an amazing vice president, who's done nothing but, through her entire career, want to bring change to the country. It was just an incredibly exciting opportunity to be able to be part of that. Marta Lucia Ramirez continues to be an example in her country. And, I know that's not the end of the road for her. So, when you get to do things like that, it's certainly a whole different way of getting paid. It's a reward that you can't put a price tag on.
David Reynolds:
I flipped through your posts, on your online photo account. And, I've jotted down quickly some locations. And so, from January 1st of this year through today, your travels have included, I may miss a few, but I think this might be pretty comprehensive. Kazakhstan, Colombia, Jerusalem, Massachusetts, Rome, Kiev, Istanbul, visiting Fox and Friends, Washington DC, Zimbabwe, saw a photo in Athens, Georgia with Herschel Walker, Mozambique, Azerbaijan, Qatar, London, the Georgia governor's inaugural ball, Malta, Johannesburg, meeting with Wladimir Klitschko, Togo, and Disney World just this past week. And 25 years ago, Chattanooga, Tennessee in the U.S. by way of California from the Soviet Union. So, that's an amazing world itinerary. And especially, in a short period of time, even if we include the 25 years, that's more travel than most people do in any quarter of a century, and certainly in six months. So, what would you highlight as the major milestones in your life during that time period, from childhood to now. The most significant pivot points that you believe moved you to where you are today?
Vlada Galan:
David it's hard to believe. And even for me, it's hard to believe that this year alone I've done about 18 countries and 29 cities. I mean, it shocks even me. And, the year's not even over. The huge milestones and pivotal points in my life that have really led me to where I am today, start with being born into the Soviet Union, coming out of the Soviet Union in my early childhood, that perspective. And then, I guess the first big milestone is coming to America. Coming to America at eight years old, changed my perspective. It changed everything about me and formed who I am. The next milestone that was a huge pivotal point, was going from private school to public school. In private school, you get the foundation of the morals and the basic foundation for a young adult.
Vlada Galan:
But, as I transitioned into public school and high school, it opens your eyes to the world a little bit. I felt it was more of a fair playing field for me. And then, that next big milestone for me was graduating with my bachelor's degree. I worked full-time, when I put myself through school. I worked 65 hours a week with a full school load, and it was no easy task. But, I had set a goal for myself to graduate with no student loans. And, it was extremely difficult, but those milestones leading me through my graduation were real pivotal points if you look at each one of them. Coming to America with my mother, a single mother with $0.25 in our pockets to survive in a new country, in no language, it's a fundamental changing point in anyone's life. Going all the way through to accomplishing what so many immigrants come in hopes to accomplish, to be able to finish school here, to be able to establish myself.
Vlada Galan:
The next step was entering into the successful career that I now enjoy today. And, getting to travel the world. I continued in my education. Those pivotal milestones in my life shaped me, shaped my perspective. It's unbelievable to say that, as a child there was bread lines, waiting for a loaf of bread. This is a concept that in America, we cannot even wrap our heads around. These are the things that really shaped me, my perspective, and continue to guide, and give me the opportunity to do what I do today.
David Reynolds:
I have a lot of... I know you're going to say your mother, if I ask you about the most influential person in your life. So in addition to her, what other leader have you interacted with that had a great influence on you? But, feel free to talk about your mom as well.
Vlada Galan:
David, I've been fortunate to work with leaders all over the world, but one of the great leaders that I happened to work with right here in Georgia, was governor Nathan deal. In 2014, I spent almost two weeks on the road with him on a statewide bus tour. This leader had such an influence on me, and he may not even know that he had such a great influence on me, but he was someone who didn't really deeply care about what people thought, he cared more about doing what was right and serving the people of Georgia. Even if some things were not popular, he served some of the citizens that are the least among us. He championed prison reform. And, these are often things that are just not popular for a leader in our state. And, I learned so much from him, and I respected him so much for it. But, it had a huge influence on me. It taught me that often we are shaped by other people's opinions, or we react based on their opinions of us. But sometimes, doing what's right, what you feel is right. And, what you see is right, is the way to proceed. You always have to follow what you feel inside, and knowing we have a good in us inherently as people, following that it can be very, very successful. And, that's what he taught me.
Vlada Galan:
And then, of course you highlighted my mother. My mother is of course, someone who is an extraordinary person. She speaks five languages. She has truly been a rock in my life. I mean, just think to yourself of a young, single, immigrant woman with an eight year old child, no English, just trying to come to this country for a better life with her daughter against all odds.
Vlada Galan:
She fought, I think every single obstacle you can probably imagine. She managed to educate herself here, with multiple degrees and upper level degrees. She learned yet another new language. She honestly showed me that super women actually exist in real life. And, this has given me the perspective that I can accomplish anything. And, even if I don't have the qualification, even if everything says that I'm not capable, I still go for it. And I think, 50% of it is being there and trying. And, she taught me that. So, those two people have had a real influence on me in my life.
David Reynolds:
So, regarding what you needed to know, and be able to do to be successful in your current role. And you've mentioned the impact that your mom, the governor, and other leaders may have had in your life. How would you describe the balance between your formal education, and the experience and skill sets you've acquired while on the job? Which one do you think, has had the greatest impact on your current success? Learning as you're immersed in doing it, or the formal education prior to being in the role?
Vlada Galan:
Well David, I think that at the end of the day education, especially upper level education, college, it teaches us a responsibility. For me, it taught me hard work. As I said, I worked about 65 hours a week with a full school load, but it taught me responsibility, it taught me time management, it taught me a lot of things. But, the truth is I didn't really get a full knowledge of the field I even work in now, until I joined my first political campaign. And, I joined as a volunteer. And, it was a priceless experience. The amount that you learn by immersing yourself. Honestly, it's often an uncomfortable change because you don't know what's going on and you feel like you're a fish out of water. But, I've learned that that is one of the best feelings, because it means that you're learning something, and you're in a new environment. Change happens when we're often uncomfortable. And, this is when learning, when change happens. So, I've learned so much through immersion, but I think that regardless, that responsibility that we learned through education, that time management, this is also irreplaceable. So, I think that we're looking at a component of both of these things. I mean, they are both so, so important in the work that we later go on to do in our lives.
David Reynolds:
You mentioned the phrase priceless experience just now in that response. And, you've mentioned the public versus private school experiences that you had. So, I want to cycle back to that for just a moment and just say, since you spent all of your high school years, nine through 12, in the public school setting, what was it about the public school experience that you found to be the most advantageous?
Vlada Galan:
I have to tell you that in public school, there really is a real fair playing ground. And, there is a lot of opportunity if you look for it. You don't have to go out and make the opportunity, it actually exists. I was fortunate to take advantage of a dual enrollment program in Dalton High School. And, it allowed me to take college level classes just across the street at Dalton State College. It's something that was brought to me by my advisor, who noticed in me the desire to want to do more, and push myself further. And, it was an amazing opportunity that not only got me fired up about the next stage of my life and moving on with my education, but it's an opportunity that many, many schools just don't offer. I found it to be an amazing zone for opportunity. I found it to be a fair playing field.
Vlada Galan:
And, I also coming out of private school. I think that public school opens your eyes to the world. You see all kinds of people across all walks of life, and you are put in an environment, where you have to make real decisions that you have to be accountable for at that age. Being put in that environment before going off to college is an amazing experience. And, I was able to take advantage of it. I had amazing AP and IB teachers that were able to guide me, and it was very exciting. I gained a lot from public school. And honestly, I will always be grateful for that.
David Reynolds:
I love the phrase zone for opportunity. I've just jotted that down. I'm going to have to use that again. That's a great line to describe in a real succinct way, the value of the experience that you had there. Earlier, you listed off quite a number of components of the work that you do now related to these elections. And, one of the things that you said to me that subsumes all of those bulleted items, in a previous email, you said that you guide the entire campaign process. So, inside that process, where do you find that you make the greatest impact? Is it the management of the logistics? Or, maybe the messaging? Or, the actual advising that you get to do, personally next to a sitting official? Or, is it overseeing the integrity of the process? Or, a combination of those, or something I've missed?
Vlada Galan:
Yeah. The greatest impact often is found in the critical part of the campaign, and that is the political strategy. Political strategy is based off of survey research, and a long set of polling. From there, we're able to see a vision and what the winning path should look like. And from there, it's then organizing and managing a local team, and teaching them how to respond to crisis, how to allocate resources. But one of the biggest, biggest gifts that you can give to any campaign is a different perspective. Often, they are very set in a way of working in a certain path. Eastern Europe, they have a very set mentality of the way they work. In Africa, they have a very, very different way that they work, it's very freestyle, it's very different. So, we're able to bring a western perspective to the work process, and we're able to streamline that work. And, that's probably one of the most impactful things that we can do.
Vlada Galan:
Now, from there, we certainly work with ad creation and setting the PR scope of things. But more importantly, it's following that initial strategy and path to victory that we set in the beginning. And, what does that even mean? That means that we're telling you what to say, where to go, how to engage with your voters, how to excite that voter base that's often stagnant. It's a full fledged process, but one of the biggest things is providing a different perspective, and guiding a local team to stay on the course to that envisioned path to victory.
David Reynolds:
So, when you mentioned staying on that course, and their vision towards the endgame of the process is of course, winning the election, and then being able to implement their policies for the betterment of the people that they serve. Is the direction that you are heading in set by the candidate, and the party, or is it guided and set by you and your colleagues in your advisory role? Do you help them get where they want to go, or do you help them with this new perspective, see where they might be able to go?
Vlada Galan:
That is an absolutely great question. We really help them get to where the people are. And, bring them closer to what their citizens need and want and desire to see in the country, because this is really how you win. You don't win by taking the course that they envisioned, because often what they envision doesn't always align with what the people need and what the people want. And we, as foreigners coming in also cannot just set a pure path, blindly based on what we think is best. We have enough experience, and we're experienced enough to look at the voters and what is it that the people want? And, we help to bring the candidate closer to that voter base. And, to let the people know that he cares about them, or she cares about them. And, to help the people understand that this is one of us, this is someone that wants to care for us, that wants to make our lives better. And based on that, and the survey research, we're able to see where those needs, desires, and opportunities lie to bring the change that people so desperately need.
Vlada Galan:
And from there, we pave a path to victory. And part of that path includes, going to certain regions, and pushing certain messages that really matter to the people. You cannot forget the people that have the power to put you there. This is a critical, critical piece of it. So, the majority of what guides us, is really the citizens.
David Reynolds:
You mentioned earlier that teaching the team how to respond was a critical aspect of your work. So, it's clear that you do view this work as a teaching opportunity. Are there other things about your work that you see as, "Wow, I'm teaching as I do all of this?"
Vlada Galan:
It certainly happens in my day to day work. I mentioned a new way of thinking. And, the real teaching opportunity comes from being able to share your know-how and teach a new way of just simply doing things. You're able to show one, how young women, as an example, can break all the barriers. But beyond that, you're able to show just a different way of doing things. That it doesn't always fall into the box. And you often see on these campaigns, you see people of all ages are often sponges, that just want to learn, want to understand, want to also be their own catalyst for change. And, it's amazing when you see that, because you know that with people like that, a campaign has a great chance of succeeding. But I hate to say that, unfortunately, there are people who don't want to learn, who don't want to be taught, who are very set in a certain way of thinking. And very often, those are campaigns that just aren't as successful. Very often, those campaigns have real problems, because people don't want to open their minds, open their hearts, and don't want to try something new. But, I think teaching opportunities exist in our everyday lives, honestly. And, I'm able to do it every day in my job. I'm honestly sure that you are too, you're able to have teaching moments in every aspect of life.
David Reynolds:
What about your learning? What's the most profound learning for you so far?
Vlada Galan:
I've learned more than anything, that you have to trust your gut. We have to learn to trust ourselves in life. And I think, often we do not do this. Inside, we have a compass that guides us on what's right, and what's wrong. I've also learned to be much more patient, and much more tolerant. You don't have to be the one in the room that's always talking. Sometimes, you learn much, much more from listening than you would ever imagine. And, probably the hardest is to delegate certain tasks. Maybe I'm a bit of a micromanager, I might admit. And, sometimes you just don't have the energy nor the time to do it all. And, you have to use the team that you have. And these things aren't always easy for someone with my personality.
David Reynolds:
So, what is Vlada Galan's definition of success?
Vlada Galan:
Success. Success means something different to everyone. To me, success is being first of all, happy and content to the place I am in life. But, the second factor of success for me, is being able to have financial stability, to be able to provide for my family, and to have freedom. And, what does freedom really mean? To me, freedom means being able to pick up and have the time, the resources to go where I want. Freedom is not being confined to something. And, this is a version of success to me, but success might mean something very different to you David, than it does to me. At the end of the day, the common denominator in success is being really happy and content with where you are. If you're waking up every day, and you're hating your life, and you're hating going to work. Then, maybe you're not in the right place. And I think, it's hard for people to acknowledge that. But, happiness is a common denominator.
David Reynolds:
Sounds like that might run concurrent with the notion that the less successful campaigns are those where people are really less willing to consider a different perspective. So, let's talk a little bit about change, and what do you think makes it happen, and what prevents it from happening? And, can everybody actually be a catalyst for change?
Vlada Galan:
David, change is an amazing thing. We often as individuals, and maybe it's just me, certainly didn't think that I could be some change in the world. I thought that change meant moving mountains and rearranging the seven seas, but that's not what change is about. We, as people can be the change that we actually want to see in the world. And, I know people say that and I can sound cliche, but making change happen means that we actually have to get out of our comfort zones, which is something that I mentioned earlier. There should be some aspect in your life that you're able to learn from, and get motivated by, and bring change. You have to get involved in what drives you, and use that to be a catalyst for change. For me personally, that was politics. I found a way where, if I wasn't happy with what was going on in my state, in my district, in my county. I could get up, I could volunteer. I could knock on doors, and I could make a change somehow, and have a part in the process.
Vlada Galan:
And, it led to an incredible career for me, because I found something that drove me to get up and make a change. And I wasn't always comfortable, it wasn't always exciting, but I was always motivated to keep going forward because I saw that just by me, an immigrant girl who came to the States, I could be a change somehow. And, look at where a young volunteer knocking on doors in Georgia could end up leading elections globally, all over the world. Who would think that, that could happen. But, it's amazing what can happen when you agree to get up, and to be some sort of change, and to get a little bit uncomfortable. It's pretty exciting, when you think about it. We can all be the catalyst for change, every single one of us. We just have to have the right mentality. We can make it happen. So, the way to do that is by getting involved in something we really care about.
David Reynolds:
And, based on the people that you've worked with, that are running for vice president, president, prime minister, why do you think it is that they decide to run for and serve in those roles?
Vlada Galan:
Often, they feel that it's a natural next step in a career. And, this isn't always the right reason to continue on and run for president. Other times, you have candidates, like candidates I've worked with in Latin America, that actually want change. And, they want to be the change. They want to break the barriers, they want to break the glass ceilings, because they see that they have to get involved. They feel almost a calling to serve. And, those are the candidates that I love working with. I have a litmus test on these campaigns, that if I can't vote for you in my country, it's very rare opportunity that I'm going to work for you. And, you have to work for people that you believe can be a change and get out there and do something different. A lot of these candidates are honestly motivated by being a change and bringing something new to the country. And other times, unfortunately, it's just a political motivation. And, some people don't get in it for the right reasons. Some politicians are crooks, unfortunately, and that's just the world we live in. But if you look hard enough, there are many, many leaders that just want to bring change, want to break down barriers, want to change education systems, change healthcare systems, and do something for their communities and for their countries. And, those are the leaders that I personally enjoy working with.
David Reynolds:
Your mom is an educator. Do you see similarities or parallels between the reasons that somebody decides to serve as an educator, and the reasons that you just listed for someone choosing to serve in those types of roles?
Vlada Galan:
Oh, absolutely. Educators are citizens in our community that give so much selflessly. They go into it for the right reasons. They do not have the greatest salaries. They do not have the greatest opportunities, but they go into the system to make a change, and they get involved for all the right reasons. And, it is unbelievable to think how many educators in my life have had an impact on me. I wouldn't be where I am today without educators from the public school system, from the private school system, from the university system, that I've had all along the way. Of course, there's parallels. Unfortunately, I think leaders are sometimes not as selfless as educators. Leaders have salary incentives. There's a lot of incentives in becoming a leader of a leading global economy, or a leading country. I just don't think we say, thank you, enough to our educators for what they do every day, selflessly. And, you look back and realize that these people made profound changes in your life. I had a professor who had a profound change in me. I had a high school teacher who had a profound impact on me. These people really, really matter. Very selfless. So, I think the award here goes to educators, not even global leaders.
David Reynolds:
I lifted a quote, from one of your online posts, and I wrote it down yesterday. And, I want to read that to you. It says, "Every test in our lives makes us bitter or better. Every problem comes to break us, or make us. The choice is ours, whether we become victim or victor." What resonated with you and your life that led you to capture this thought and post it, so that other people could see it?
Vlada Galan:
I want to say, first of all, I just love that you have lifted that quote. Because, it is one of the things that probably best describes my daily life mentality. I think in this life, it is extremely easy, and we see it all over our country today, to be the victim. When you're the victim, you receive the pity, you shape yourself as somebody burdened by problems. I think, it is so easy to be a victim, but it is really hard to pick yourself up and say, "No, I'm not the victim. I had maybe an unfortunate set of circumstances, but I'm going to learn from this and I'm going to be better." In my life, I don't always win. And that's okay, because I learned a lot more from losing, than I did from winning. Because when you win, you think that you did everything right. When you lose, you want to analyze every step, every movement, and every action.
Vlada Galan:
And in life, you can always make a choice every day about a set of circumstances. You can choose to be unhappy. You can choose to play the victim. You can choose to be bitter. Or, you can choose to learn something and be better. I come across people who tell me, "I can't do this. I don't know. I was never taught. It's someone else's fault." In life, if you choose to learn and be better and not bitter, you can truly attain a lot of success. We all fall down. I think, you would agree, but we can make something of it.
David Reynolds:
In your role now, you've had multiple instances where you could have slipped over to the victim mentality, when you were the youngest person on staff and the first female hired by your firm. Can you talk about that a little bit and how that feeds into this whole approach to how you do your work?
Vlada Galan:
In my first campaign, I lost. It was so hard, and I thought, "I can't do this anymore. I can't put my heart and my soul into something like this, just to see someone who is really the best, most qualified person to lead, to not make it up there." And, I put so much time and so much energy... And I realized, that if this is the first campaign and it's going to knock me down, then maybe I'm not in the right business. And I realized, that I should learn something from it, and continue. I've been denied so many interviews, I've been turned down for jobs, my college advisor told me that I'd never have a career in politics, because political science wasn't a real degree. I always managed to pick myself up.
Vlada Galan:
That led me to the company I currently work for. And, when I entered the firm, it was a younger firm. And, I was the first female hired, and I was the youngest in the firm. And, I didn't really give it much thought or credit, until almost half a year later after joining the firm, when another female joined, and I'm still the youngest. And I thought to myself, "Wow, this is really an amazing accomplishment, to be able to work for such a top-tier firm. And, to be the first female entering this environment." I mean, I really work in a man's world. And, as I said earlier, there's many places where I can become a victim and say that I've been discriminated against or turned down. But, that is not the right mentality.
David Reynolds:
So, where are you going next? Geographically, I know you're headed out tomorrow somewhere. And also, your career or personally, where are you going next?
Vlada Galan:
It's a great question. I actually leave tomorrow. So, you've managed to track me down in a good period of time. I leave tomorrow for Africa. I will be in Rwanda, and then Zimbabwe. And then, from there I head to Israel, Ukraine, and Turkey. It's all work-related. Personally, career is really important for me. It's a huge focus of where my life is right now. So, I'm focusing on travel for the next few months.
David Reynolds:
Is there anything else that you would like to share, or anything that I should have asked that you would want to make sure our listeners hear?
Vlada Galan:
I think you have done an amazing job David, for covering just about every key topic and point. And, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share a little bit of my life, and a little bit of what I do with you. It's been a great opportunity and I'm truly grateful for it.
David Reynolds:
Thank you, Vlada it's been a pleasure talking with you today.
Vlada Galan:
Thank you, David. It's it's been a great pleasure for me as well.
David Reynolds:
Safe travels.
David Reynolds:
Thanks for listening today. Podcast cover art is from Unsplash, by photographer Simon Matt Zinger, with the view of Altmunster am Traunsee, Austria. And, the soundtrack is Sweet Adrenaline, by Delicate Beats. You can reach podcast host, David Reynolds, at LeadLearnChange@icloud.com. Follow us on Instagram at Lead. Learn. Change, and check out LinkedIn for podcast related posts. Find the Lead. Learn. Change podcast on your search engine, iTunes, Google podcasts, Spotify, myTuner, or other listening app. Leave a rating, write a review, subscribe, and share with others. In the meantime, go lead, go learn, go make a change. Go.